Is my WW2 Hizen Kuni Tadayoshi sword a fake?

[JoeR1981]

Hi everyone, i just bought a sword on eBay that the seller says is signed by Hizen No Kuni Tadayoshi.  It's a type 98 WW2 sword. The signature on the tang looks a little sloppy to me but im no expert and either is the seller. Can anyone lead me to the right conclusion?

[NewB]

Hello,

 

I'm not an expert, just someone to guide you through what is usually needed to have a good guess presented to you!

 

Photos of the blade shape (without fittings) in vertical shape, photos of the hardening of the tip and the overall tang shape plus the folded steel of the blade could lead to more educated guess. The mei is rather bold but it looks suspicious to me. Could be the the powder still in the Kanji..

 

Personally I've never seen gojimei Tadayoshi chiseled this way but I'm novice.

 

Hope this is a little bit of help to get a better more conclusive answer

 

J.

[JoeR1981]

NewB thank you, i will do my best with the pics provided by the seller. I hope i am wrong but i took a chance with it. Your input is much appreciated!

[JoeR1981]

[JoeR1981]

[NewB]

I m definitely far away from making a call - I'm a big fan of the school, hence my reply

 

I'd say gimei 

 

Also, Adding accurate dimensions could help greatly - cutting edge length, tip length, tang length and overall blade length .. the photos do not provide great insight .. 

 

J.

[JoeR1981]

Here are detailed measurements for the sword:

Nagasa: 64 cm

Sori: 0.7 cm

Motohaba: 3.3 cm

Sakihaba: 2.5 cm

Kissaki Nagasa: 5.8 cm

Nakago Nagasa: 25.8 cm

 

Kasane: 0.7 cm        

[JoeR1981]

NewB, right i think i need to seek a professional once it arrives. I posted the measurements that the seller listed, i wish he had better pictures of the blade. I will have to wait until i actually recieve the sword lol

[NewB]

Absolutely 

 

Take some good photos. To me it is signed on the wrong side plus some other stuff..

 

Could be wrong

 

J.

[JoeR1981]

I didnt even think about which side, wow. I really appreciate the help, def not having high hopes anymore lol the seller does accept returns thankfully. I'll continue to research though, im still interested in an authentic Tadayoshi blade. Thank you!

[NewB]

The Shodai works are rare and even in this economy keep their value. Arguably he was one of the most respected shinto smiths per the information I have. Google 'shodai tadayoshi' and check out sho-shin.com

 

Look how many families own the important works - that's a sign for something. 

 

J.

[JoeR1981]

Absolutely.  I will do that, i respect the school enough to take a gamble on eBay so i def share your admiration!  Hey by the way, im holding on to hope here, i saw a few pics of authentic blades with the signature on the right hand side of the tang so you never know!

[NewB]

10 minutes ago, JoeR1981 said:

Absolutely.  I will do that, i respect the school enough to take a gamble on eBay so i def share your admiration!  Hey by the way, im holding on to hope here, i saw a few pics of authentic blades with the signature on the right hand side of the tang so you never know!

 

NTHK April Shinsa in Chicago !

 

Small investment for real answers..

 

 

https://nihonto.com/shodai-hizen-tadayoshi-初代肥前忠吉/

 

 

http://www.hizento.com/history-school-of-tadayoshi-1st-generation.php

 

 

J.

[JoeR1981]

Thank you i will check them out!

[David Flynn]

1st giveaway, the sword above is signed Katana Mei,  where as  Tadayoshi signed Tachi Mei.

[JoeR1981]

David Flynn, thank you for the info! 

[JoeR1981]

David Flynn, i just read that they signed Wakizashi on the katana mei side, hey maybe its a wakizashi?? Its only 64cm long, not super short but def in the ballpark!

[David Flynn]

It's a Machiokuri  Katana.

[Guest Simon R]

Hi Joe,

 

As it was years ago, I'm not sure where I copied the following two illustrations from (and so apologies to anyone if it is from their own publication). However, I thought it may shed some light on the signature style.

I should add that I myself, have zero knowledge of the intricacies of this school. 

[Guest Simon R]

PS: this is a definitely genuine example which was appraised by Honami Koson in 1940 and appeared on the website www.hizento.net 19 years ago.

(Also note the position of the menuki-ana to the right of the second kanji.)

[JoeR1981]

David Flynn, you are making a lot of sense. I hope you are wrong though lol I believe it was an actual WW2 katana but not an actual Tadayoshi blade. I know a few countries got a hold of these things by the ton and everyone was trying to squeeze every penny out of them.

[JoeR1981]

SRDRowson, thank you for the info and yup, that signature looks so crisp and clean. Great lines. Nothing like mine.

[John C]

4 hours ago, JoeR1981 said:

the seller

Matt at sohei-swords perhaps?

John C.

[JoeR1981]

John C, maybe lol

[NewB]

53 minutes ago, SRDRowson said:

PS: this is a definitely genuine example which was appraised by Honami Koson in 1940 and appeared on the website www.hizento.net 19 years ago.

(Also note the position of the menuki-ana to the right of the second kanji.)

 

Just FYI

 

Mine's published.

 

J.

 

 

 

[Brian]

If you buy a non papered Tadayoshi on eBay...then yes. You bought a gimei sword.
But the good thing is you paid gimei prices. Did you pay $5000+ for it? Nope.....then 100 other bidders knew it was gimei and passed.
No treasure hunting on eBay.
Also, the blade length is 64cm. That means it IS a katana. Not that it might be a long wakizashi. If it is 60.6cm or longer, you have a katana. These things aren't variable or subject to debate.
Yes, it's a real Japanese sword and yes...it went to war.

[JoeR1981]

Brian, thank you for the input. I appreciate your words on the matter. It's an interesting item either way for sure.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Do you have the original listing handy?

[Guest Simon R]

2 hours ago, NewB said:

 

Just FYI

 

Mine's published.

 

J.

 

 

 

Jolly good!

[JoeR1981]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/225418845476?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=aj6v6l0tQNq&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=cWUbYfV2TdW&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY