Large iron Katana tsuba. Rotten wood and spider web. Opinions please.

[Matsunoki]

Hello again from the UK, yes it’s me again with another recent acquisition asking for your help and guidance. I bought this one recently (same auction as the crab tsuba) simply because I like the subject and I thought it looked well made. I have some memory that a spiders web on a tree was something to do with someone hiding in a tree during the Gempei wars. I must do some rooting around. 
Meantime can I please prevail upon you and ask for your help on possible school, age etc? I’ve not had much luck on the internet.

The hornet or wasp is nicely inlaid in shakudo and gilt. 
H8.7cm W8.0cm T4mm

[Grevedk]

Good afternoon Colin,

 

In the hope that I can supplement your own memory - then the statement below is from the tsuba collection in the “Metropolitan Museum of Art”. Design is slightly different, but motive (without insect any 🕷️ 🦟), as well as the story could be related to your recent acquisition.

 

Text:
 

“The entire plate of the tsuba is carved to resemble a dead tree, with a spider web and threads inlaid in gold nunome-zōgan. A spiderweb on a dead tree combined with an openwork design (as here represented by the small ko-sukashi towards the bottom and the two hitsu-ana) alludes to a famous scene from the Genpei War (1180-1185). In 1181, Taira warrior Kajiwara Kagetoki (梶原景時, 1162-1200) was sent to pursue the fleeing Minamoto no Yoritomo (源頼朝, 1147-1199). Kagetoki discovered Yoritomo hiding in the hollow trunk of a fallen tree but as he was switching sides, he did not reveale Yoritomo’s hideout. A spider had spun its web over the opening in the trunk since Yoritomo had crawled inside and so Kagetoki pointed out to his men that no one could be hiding therein as that spider web was intact.”

All the best.

 

/Soren

[Matsunoki]

5 minutes ago, Grevedk said:

Good afternoon Colin,

 

In the hope that I can supplement your own memory - then the statement below is from the tsuba collection in the “Metropolitan Museum of Art”. Design is slightly different, but motive (without insect any 🕷️ 🦟), as well as the story could be related to your recent acquisition.

Good afternoon Soren

Indeed that is what my memory was attempting to recall…….without much luck! Now not so sure if my tsuba does relate to that legend as the positioning of the spider web is somewhat different ie in the one you post it does look to cover an opening in the tree but in mine it doesn’t. Who knows….let’s see what others think(hopefully).

Greatly appreciate your time, very kind of you. Many thanks.

All the best.Colin

[kissakai]

I would have thought the wasp to be of significance

 

[Matsunoki]

1 minute ago, kissakai said:

would have thought the wasp to be of significance

Interesting point…do you think it may represent Yoritomo or his pursuer?…..or something else?

Thanks for your thoughts.

[vajo]

Collin that edo period iron mokko gata tsuba is a nice one. Good iron and a eyecandy motif. 

Hard to say what school it is. 

 

[Spartancrest]

Hi Collin,  the use of so much 'ten-zogan'  [dot inlay] is an unusual feature on your guard, It usually indicates dew or rain drops [and just looks great as well!]. Perhaps the 'rain' or early morning 'dew' also has a special meaning in the story? I notice both your guard and the one from the Metropolitan Art Museum [Accession Number: 91.1.771] supplied by Soren don't show the spider, it is simply inferred, otherwise I would direct you to this thread which has a wasp and spider.

 

 

[Mark S.]

A tsuba I just picked up… slightly different and probably a simpler design.  Just thought it might be of interest.

 

 

 

[Spartancrest]

57 minutes ago, Mark S. said:

Just thought it might be of interest.

Where is the "Sexy" emoji? 

[Jester]

Hey guys, is any of these tsuba for sale?

[rematron]

Hi Marc.  Anything for sale will be posted in the 'for sale' section of the forum.  If you are looking to buy something in particular, you can post in the 'want to buy' section.

[Andi B.]

I can contribute these two rotten wood tsuba for reference. First I found the Umetada signed one (Japanese auction) and few months later there was the ant piece on ebay. I couldn't resist because they make a nice pair - so they're not for sale.

It looks like there is a template for the wood pattern/hole positions and this has been used by different artist. 

 

 

[Mark S.]

Reviving this older thread.  Picked this tsuba up a while back and I think it kinda fits the theme of this thread.  Anyone know the significance of spider webs and nails?  Also, I am used to iron tsuba, but this one is ‘brown’ and has a smooth finish that almost looks ‘painted’ on?  Lacquer or something else?  There are also a couple red kanji in one of the openings, but your guess is probably better than mine.  Thoughts and opinions welcome.  
 

[Mark S.]

[rkg]

Brown waxed?

Best,

rkg

(Richard George)

[O-Midare]

Couple of rotted wood Tsuba I have.

[Larason2]

Mark S. The details look a bit coarse and washed out, and I think I see a casting bubble on the ura side. The rim doesn't look traditionally hammered. The sekigane doesn't look right to me, almost like it has pieces that chipped off. So not a high quality piece, anyway, and possibly cast.

[Spartancrest]

On 3/18/2023 at 5:31 PM, Andi B. said:

It looks like there is a template for the wood pattern/hole positions

Sure looks like the tsubaco are all working from the same guide book. I have seen "bulk buys" of cast ones with the same pattern [usually without the webs or spider/ants etc added] I wonder if the basic background was sent off for further refinement in some cases? I am not saying all these examples are cast but there looks like an opening in the market that was filled by some cheaper copies.

These examples all show the ragged hitsu shape, the decoration otherwise varies from none to very elaborate. The three in the red box area have extra openings in the plate very similar to each other yet unique.

 

What is harder to find are examples like Collin's [top post] - Woodgrain with ten-zogan [dot inlay]. There are a few but not with the wasp and spiderweb. 

[Mark S.]

On 5/29/2023 at 2:43 PM, Larason2 said:

Mark S. The details look a bit coarse and washed out, and I think I see a casting bubble on the ura side. The rim doesn't look traditionally hammered. The sekigane doesn't look right to me, almost like it has pieces that chipped off. So not a high quality piece, anyway, and possibly cast.

I apologize for not responding sooner.  Thank you for giving your thoughts.  This one is different than what I am used to.  Oh well… learning experience.

[Matsunoki]

On 5/29/2023 at 4:14 PM, Mark S. said:

There are also a couple red kanji in one of the openings,

These are possibly old collection notations. I’ve had red lacquer kanji on tsuba in the distant past. It’s a harmless and inconspicuous way of doing it.

[Larason2]

Looking at it again, maybe I'm wrong about the casting bubble and sekigane. It would also be unusual to have a cast tsuba without a signature! Still, the details aren't in sharp relief. I do see some facets on the rim, so maybe hammered. I shouldn't be so hasty in making comments!

[Matsunoki]

I can’t figure the significance of the nails…..but then a weird thought breezed in……..could it be a “pun” on the material the tsuba is made from ie old nails? I believe it did happen a fair bit?…….yes I know…..crazy. 
Anyone do any better……maybe @Spartancrest 🙂

(imo….not cast)

[Spartancrest]

12 hours ago, Matsunoki said:

old nails?

I think it might be related to something the smith might see every day on the walls of his forge - bent nails in the boards? [hand made nails of course]

There are examples with what look like barbed wire or staples through them - I can't find images off hand.

[Larason2]

It's an interesting thought, because famously Japanese traditional woodworking and architecture doesn't use nails. The joints are cut precisely, and if they need fasteners they use wooden pegs. So I'd imagine that nails are a specific reference to Western culture.

[Spartancrest]

This is another wood grain tsuba with ten-zogan and nunome - elongated hitsu but no wasp or spiderweb    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/285290708562  or  https://www.jauce.com/auction/l1028416899