For those who doubt the efficacy of Kyu-gunto swords in combat!

[Guest Simon R]

Over the years I have accumulated  several, very old Japanese magazines. Today I was flipping through one dated 5th December, Meiji 33  (just five years after the first Sino Japanese war) and came across this rather bloodthirsty illustration below.

 

It looks to my inexpert eyes to depict a kyu-gunto in action but, as the soldier is riding a horse, I guess it could be a cavalry variation - it is obviously very effective whatever it is!

[Rivkin]

There are thousands of images with kyu-gunto executions.

[Guest Simon R]

9 minutes ago, Rivkin said:

There are thousands of images with kyu-gunto executions.

This is the first one I've seen - talk about naïve.

 I presume it's a lot easier to behead a man on his knees with his hands tied behind his back than galloping on a horse. 😞

[DTM72]

2 hours ago, SRDRowson said:

Over the years I have accumulated  several, very old Japanese magazines. Today I was flipping through one dated 5th December, Meiji 33  (just five years after the first Sino Japanese war) and came across this rather bloodthirsty illustration below.

 

It looks to my inexpert eyes to depict a kyu-gunto in action but, as the soldier is riding a horse, I guess it could be a cavalry variation - it is obviously very effective whatever it is!

 

 

 

With the shape of the D-ring tsuba, the acorn type tassel and the chrome saya, that is 100% an army kyu-gunto.

[Bruce Pennington]

Interesting topic! Although, I don’t think anyone has ever said that they were ineffective. The single complaint was that in the brutal Chinese winters they were breaking. Also, in the winter, the Chinese would wrap themselves with multiple layers and the kyugunto were ineffective in slicing through the layers.

[ROKUJURO]

Simon,

in my opinion, the pictures merely show the efficacy of publicity!

[Guest Simon R]

12 hours ago, ROKUJURO said:

Simon,

in my opinion, the pictures merely show the efficacy of publicity!

Agreed Jean. Until I saw Rivkin's very sobering photo, my tongue was firmly in cheek as I knew this to be blatant Meiji Era propaganda.

[Rivkin]

I'll put some context behind those.

After Russo-Japanese war Japanese army defacto came into posession of vast territories which were administered with the help of Chinese and Korean authorities; the status quo was the local governments having difficulty controlling "bandits" especially after the mass rebellions marking the end of Qing dynasty rule. Death penalty was nearly the only punishment applied in greater China and quite liberally at that. Beheading of a few hundred people at once was at all not uncommon.

 

What changed is first and foremost Japanese having very strong photography culture among the troops, very many officers and even enlisted men obviously eager to photograph the executions. With time more and more Japanese troops were beginning to join in beheadings, unti in 1930s you seldom find a local executioners. Those came from appropriate families and kept wearing Manchu-style garb and hair actually doing the cutting - but they still often supervise the execution or help out. The cutting is done by enlisted men with guntos. Until 1910 you see purely beheadings, from 1920s as the army advances into China you see many people skinned (or better say sliced) alive, which was not that common in Korea proper, and you see street walls mounted with cut off heads. Nanqing executions were extremely well photographed from every angle, for example.

 

You can buy these "military albums" in Japan today and even series of so called "cruel photos" which has its own collecting community. The prices are not huge. 

 

For the combat use of gunto, there were a few highly publicized stories depicted in many posters and booklets, but their source and veracity is generally uncertain.

 

 

 

[PNSSHOGUN]

[Kmad]

Personally I would not look at beheading civilians with hands tied behind their back "Combat"

Regards

Ken 

[Guest Simon R]

21 hours ago, Kmad said:

Personally I would not look at beheading civilians with hands tied behind their back "Combat"

Regards

Ken 

Nor, indeed, would I, Ken.

 

As I've already stated, my heading for the original post was intended as being tongue in cheek at the very obvious propaganda.

I had never previously seen the photo which Rivkin posted and I would certainly never make light of such a barbaric practice - by any nation.

 

Simon

[PNSSHOGUN]

One of the major complaints against the Kyu Gunto in the field was the shape of the handle was not suited to Japanese swordsmanship and was fragile. Ironically the fragility aspect was immediately replicated in the Type 94, the Gunto repair teams in China compiled stats for breakages in combat and the vast majority were broken Tsuka. The main causes were poor quality wood, weak Mekugi, and long Tsuka with short Nakago.

 

 

 

 

 

[Kmad]

Hi Simon,

I was not having  go at  you,  apologies if it came across as same.

Regards,

Ken