The (in)famous silk worm tsuba

[OceanoNox]

Remembering the words of Ford Hallam, here or his own forum, about the tsuba with silk worm sukashi, I think he said it might be fingers. So I tried myself.

Here is the tsuba in the Boston Museum of Fine Arts:

 

And here is a drawing with sukashi of the finger bones when gripping the tsuka:

 

I think it's pretty close. Then again, this feels like my previous question about namako: is the design really supposed to be silk worms (or butterfly wings), or is it a name set on a design whose meaning has been forgotten?

[Toryu2020]

I'm not sure it was Ford who suggested finger bones. I guess my question would be - in your drawing which hand is holding the sword and which fingers are we seeing?

 

-t

[OceanoNox]

15 minutes ago, Toryu2020 said:

I'm not sure it was Ford who suggested finger bones. I guess my question would be - in your drawing which hand is holding the sword and which fingers are we seeing?

 

-t

It's what I remember.

In the Boston Museum tsuba, if this is the front, it would be the left hand. In mine, it is the right hand (thumb on the right, index on the left, with the knuckles of the middle and ring fingers).

[Toryu2020]

If in the right hand, wouldn't the ha (cutting edge) be down and not up?

 

-t

[OceanoNox]

You're completely right. I will check again.

[Spartancrest]

Big bones or butterfly wings?

[OceanoNox]

To me, they look like neither (and most of the butterfly wings, namako and such, do not look like the part).

 

Here is the tsuba reoriented when the sword is in hand (I drew the bones of the hand too).

It is mostly an experiment based on the (remembered) aforementioned comment.

[Ford Hallam]

It was in fact me who proposed the hand bone interpretation of this particular design, yes. I posted my argument with images on this forum, so if anyone is interested to look it up I think I make my case pretty clear there. 

 

The bigger point I was making was that just because some old Japanese bloke decided what a deign was about 120 years ago, without any reference to the original artists thoughts, we don'tneed to mindlessly accept that. We're perfectly capable of thinking things through ourselves, especially if one is of a creative bent.

 

Another egregious error, I believe, in interpreting designs id the so called Higo chrysanthemum, as illustrated in Sasano. Anyone who ever cooked with lotus root will immediately recognise that the tsuba is merely an exactly copy of a cross section of said root.  

 

But I think Dale has posed a bigger question with the tsuba he's posted. Is it actually a tsuba? For one the nakago-ana is positioned way too high for it to be properly mounted. And to be blunt it looks like it was made in a back street welder shop by some dodgy car repair cowboy, only a mother could love something as ugly 

[Spartancrest]

Ford I was thinking "last chicken in the shop" for that one actually. 

Made by the famous artist  盲目のスミス 

[Mark S.]

Maybe something ‘flushable’???  The gold highlights indicating corn have probably long since disappeared.  Once you see it, you’ll never unsee it… 

[ROKUJURO]

9 hours ago, Spartancrest said:

Big bones or butterfly wings?

Sorry, comment is redundant

[OceanoNox]

2 hours ago, Ford Hallam said:

It was in fact me who proposed the hand bone interpretation of this particular design, yes. I posted my argument with images on this forum, so if anyone is interested to look it up I think I make my case pretty clear there. 

Thank you! I was starting to doubt my memory. I will try to find your post.

 

2 hours ago, Ford Hallam said:

The bigger point I was making was that just because some old Japanese bloke decided what a deign was about 120 years ago, without any reference to the original artists thoughts, we don'tneed to mindlessly accept that. We're perfectly capable of thinking things through ourselves, especially if one is of a creative bent.

This is indeed what I have been feeling and trying to express in my other post about Higo / namako tsuba. I remember some photos of your own tsuba with a renkon design, but I had never heard of the Higo chrysanthemum designation.

[OceanoNox]

For anyone interested, here is Ford's post (from 2010!).

 

[Kanenaga]

We suppose Dale's tsuba is an amateur attempt to recreate the famous Shoami tsuba on the Kasen koshirae.....

 

[Spartancrest]

 

10 hours ago, Kanenaga said:

Dale's tsuba

Hey just because I find the image don't think I own it - my tastes are strange but not that strange. 

[Toryu2020]

Made contact with my friend in Japan and he provided some very useful information. 

So the original is called "Kage Cho" so shadow butterfly? It means butterflies in sunlight and what is missing from the copies is the "eye" or "head" of the butterfly. Look closely at the original and you can see tiny dots representing the head. Notice also an even number of wings, three butterflies, three heads, six wings...

 

-- 

Thomas C Helm

Pres. Northern California Japanese Sword Club

www.ncjsc.org

 

[Toryu2020]

All the copies it seems just copied the sukashi and not the complete design...

神吉鐔絵本（ドラッグされました）.pdf

[OceanoNox]

5 hours ago, Toryu2020 said:

All the copies it seems just copied the sukashi and not the complete design...

Oh! I always assumed the butterflies were also a misnamed design, having never seen the dots for the heads. This changes everything.

Thank you for showing the original designs.

[rematron]

Wow!  Interesting development in the discussion!  Those original design books are extremely useful.  I wish more were around.