Daimyo's Rapier ......Made by Japanese Craftsmen

[Guest Simon R]

I thought the members may be interested in this article and video which appeared in the English website of the Asahi Shinbun (Newspaper) in 2020.

 

Apparently, the daimyo Kato Yoshiaki (1563-1631) loved all things European and therefore commissioned a group of sword craftsman to replicate a Spanish or Dutch rapier for him.
Very interesting, the pommel screws on and off, unlike a European rapier which is peened, thus allowing the sword to be broken down into its component parts like a traditional Nihonto. Also, x-ray analysis of the blade shows that it is folded in much the same way as a Japanese blade.

 

Simon
 

https://www.asahi.com/sp/ajw/articles/13068309

[Brian]

Nice sword and interesting story, thanks Simon.

[Ken-Hawaii]

I'd love to fence with that rapier!

[Okan]

Thanks for sharing Simon.

[ROKUJURO]

4 hours ago, SRDRowson said:

..... Also, x-ray analysis of the blade shows that it is folded in much the same way as a Japanese blade.....

Simon,

all steel products of all cultures had to be processed the same way. It was necessary to attain a homogenous carbon distribution, otherwise the blade would not show predictable properties and fail in use. But we have to admit that Japanese craftsmen were the perfectionists in most all fields of crafts! 

[Guest Simon R]

1 hour ago, ROKUJURO said:

Simon,

all steel products of all cultures had to be processed the same way. It was necessary to attain a homogenous carbon distribution, otherwise the blade would not show predictable properties and fail in use. But we have to admit that Japanese craftsmen were the perfectionists in most all fields of crafts! 

Hi Jean,

 

I absolutely agree!
I'm afraid I worded it rather poorly; the lady in the video literally says that the internal structure of the blade resembles a "mille-feuille" pastry (which I think is rather sweet - no pun intended)!

 

Looking at an analysis of the metal structure of a contemporary European rapier for comparison (link below), I was very surprised to discover that it had a steel core encapsulated in iron near the hilt - virtually the exact opposite of a Nihonto! Apparently, this was done to save expensive steel in an area which was not required to hold an edge.

 

Best regards,

Simon

 

https://sites.manchester.ac.uk/microscopic-records/2020/07/02/swords-in-the-age-of-shakespeare-marc-gener-moret-on-archaeometallurgy-and-microscopic-records-of-early-modern-rapiers/

[ROKUJURO]

Simon,

thank you for the interesting link! Indeed another technique compared to Japan, but not for the same martial use. 

We are leaving the Japanese sector here, but if I am allowed I would like to expand on this subject. Japanese KATANA and WAKIZASHI are basically made for a cutting/slashing stroke while TANTO are mainly stabbing and cutting weapons. Constructions of rapiers on the other side are based on very different fencing techniques where a defense 'blade against blade' was common. A fight would mostly have ended by a thrusting motion or stab, and the opponents wore no (or little) protective harness, so a thin, but pointed blade would do the job. 

Technically, it makes sense to me to forge the rapier blade's base with a composite structure with a steel core and an iron outer layer. As we have read, a good Toledo blade was coiled up and sent to the customer in a wooden box of only 40 cm diameter! This feature seems still more exciting when you hold such a weapon - an authentic 18th century Spanish rapier with a rather 'solid' feel - in your hand as I once had the opportunity, and then see the owner bend it to a 180° circle! It came back completely straight!

So this 'springiness' of the blade was important and lead to a special heat treatment making it tougher and more flexible than hard.

The assumption that the rapier blade was made this way to save expensive steel is plain wrong and makes no sense. These weapons were not made for the poor, but for noblemen who could afford the best! We find composite techniques indeed in craftsmen's tools; axe-heads, pick-axes and heavy cleavers were made of iron with a fire-welded steel cutting edge.  

[Bryce]

G'day Guys,

Here are the photos in case the link is broken. It looks to have very little distal taper, so not sure how "good" it would feel in hand. I have read several times about mythical blades being able to be coiled up. In this case it is into a small box, in the case of Andrea Ferrara blades from Scotland it is being able to be wrapped around the waist and Damascus steel shamshirs being able to be coiled up in a hat! In all cases it doesn't stand up to logic. To be able to perform a cut or thrust effectively a sword needs to be fairly rigid. If it is flexible enough to coil inside a small box or hat, it isn't going to be much use in a fight. Sword blades aren't very bulky to ship, so I don't see any reason you would want to coil it into a box to send. If it was rigid enough for a thrust, imagine the explosive potential a long blade would have if compressed into that small of a space. As the above article goes on to say, it is an exaggeration.

Cheers,

Bryce

 

[DoTanuki yokai]

I don’t see the problem with the flexibility, it is only in one direction flexible like a thin kitchen knife. 
In bowmaking reducing the thickness of the wood in bending direction is reducing the drawweight 8 times more  then reducing its width. 

[ROKUJURO]

Christian,

in my opinion, a thin knife blade can always flex in TWO directions... (OFF TOPIC: ....while the limbs of a bow are designed to bend only in one direction. If you string a Japanese YUMI the wrong way and pull it, it is very likely to break. The same applies to European longbows made of yew wood. Modern composite bows may survive wrong handling longer than Japanese bows, though.)

[Peter Bleed]

Simon,  this is indeed an interesting presentation. Thank you. I am interested, but suspicious. The reality is that Japanese sword experts know little about swords from other regions.  The threaded tang is certainly odd. This sword deserves to be studied in Europe or at least by European researchers.

Again, thank you for this post!

Peter

[RobCarter3]

  

On 12/16/2022 at 8:18 AM, Rivkin said:

I had numerous dealings with Japanese institutions which had rather run of the mill circa 1800 Indian or European blades or mounts (apparently the desire for new things was not just shinshinto), and they wanted a nod that yes, this is Japanese imitation of European or Indian work, produced for the Otomo Daimyo (Shimazu, Hizen etc.), because it is from Kyushu and we know that the find's date is definitvely 1560. They have zero interest in this not being the case. One told me Indians could not produce it because they don't use chopsticks so the finger motorics is lacking to make a fine inlay. After having a Japanese girlfriend who did not want to learn swimming because "Japanese have very heavy bones and always sink", I was not surprised. 

But its really not Japanese problem: Scientists in the Academia do generally dislike error bars or admitting the unknown. If it says you'll all perish in plague, you'll all perish in plague unless Professor gets the funds to save us.

All of these does not mean frankly that the statements made in the paper are "bad". Its just a complex question by nature.

 

I'm reminded of @Rivkin's quoted post in this thread.  I don't know anything about rapiers so I can't weigh in specifically here.  But I struggle to see how the pommel being screwed on and the blade showing evidence of folding (a necessity with bloomery steel) proves that it's Japanese made imitation of European work.  Perhaps the best evidence for Japanese make is that the blade's shape seems rather awkward with little to no profile taper and a stubby tip.  I can find European examples with similar shape, though.  https://collections.royalarmouries.org/object/rac-object-110.html