Enjoy some photos of my wakizashi and the rather unique hamon

[Seth]

54 minutes ago, Gimmick said:

Great comeback! I'm sure it will get many anonymous likes from other brave individuals.

 

FWIW they are not anonymous.... This thread has been an amusing read while sitting at work bored.  Ferry, what are you trying to accomplish exactly? If you refuse to accept advice/opinions of enthusiasts who are just giving you their opinions what will you do if a higher authority does the same and you don't like the answer? At the end of the day, you won't know until you send it off.

[David Flynn]

I have a Sukekane Katana with TH.    From the limited photo's I've seen of the Hamon, it looks very similar to mine.     I'd go,  that it's probably Shoshin.  However, the only way to make certain is Shinsa.    Until then, every opinion (including mine) is hypothetical. 

[Jussi Ekholm]

Perhaps you could post high quality on focus images of the signature and nakago? I have pretty much zero intrest in these later swords so I wont really comment anything but on quick look it could perhaps be plausible as some references have bit of variation and this sword might have bit rough history that would affect on nakago preservation.

 

However even though pretty much all my references focus only on old swords, I think it will be quite easy to find something like at least 30+ reference signatures for Yokoyama Sukekane.

[Gimmick]

24 minutes ago, Seth said:

 

FWIW they are not anonymous.... This thread has been an amusing read while sitting at work bored.  Ferry, what are you trying to accomplish exactly? If you refuse to accept advice/opinions of enthusiasts who are just giving you their opinions what will you do if a higher authority does the same and you don't like the answer? At the end of the day, you won't know until you send it off.

 

I've stated already, I don't care if it is Gimei or not, the sword will sell as "a nice wak that is signed so and so and has such and such military provenance". I'm just not convinced people here are capable of identifying a Gimei Sukekane. If they believe they can, let them enter the bet. If four "experts" put down $50 each, I will put down the other $200. Not because I am convinced that I am right, but because I am convinced that they don't know what they are talking about, and I'm willing to spend $200 to proof their ignorance. It will be a nice gift to whoever buys the sword, and we will all have learned something.

  

28 minutes ago, Gimmick said:

Why don't we have a friendly bet? Why don't all of you put your money where your mouth is? We go 50/50 on getting certification for this blade (paid to the person who buys it). If it is Gimei, I reimburse the 50% of the "experts" who said so and I apologize for doubting you. If it is not Gimei, you reimburse me my 50% and eat some humble pie. Who wants in?

 

As for what I am trying to accomplish? If I have amused you while sitting at work bored, I have accomplished everything!

 

So who is willing to step up to the plate? Give me four names - not nicknames, first name, last name and your e-mail address in a PM - and give me your word here that you will pay where everyone can see it. You have 8 hours to sign up.

 

[NewB]

Hello Ferry,

 

I'd like to ask you nicely to please not disrespect the folks that are doing nothing but trying to help you out - for free.

 

I've personally met some and I can reassure you they are true, knowledgeable staples in the Nihonto world some of which with over 40 years of experience. I think the approach you have is wrong and just to be clear why I think that - the most of the folks that have plenty of books and time spent examining blades are quiet. It's the attitude I believe. 

 

Also you've been asked to take photos that can help make a parallel research with the information available at hand. I still don't understand why you wouldn't just provide what's asked. 

 

Last, I'm willing to submit the blade to shinsa in April in Chicago for you, as long as you pay for the submission fees and shipping/insurance. I don't want anything for the legwork! I'm not sure whether a blade in need of restoration can be submitted to shinsa though.

 

These are the best things I can suggest for you. Cheers

 

J.

[Stephen]

Id like to thank all of our members from new to long time members for taking time from their day to assist Ferry.

How many times have we seen  were a rather obviously intelligent person comes in the ask for assistance only too poopoo what he's told.

Thank you to our administrator who has been in these situations more than he cares to count.

The patience of Job he has.

Thank you to our most learned senior Bazza. I think you figured out beforehand how it would be accepted. 

Why anyone else would have any want to do with the "gimmick" is beyond me. 

 

Cheers 

Stephen 

 

 

 

 

[Dan tsuba]

I quote-

 

"Id like to thank all of our members from new to long time members for taking time from their day to assist Ferry.

How many times have we seen  were a rather obviously intelligent person comes in the ask for assistance only too poopoo what he's told.

Thank you to our administrator who has been in these situations more than he cares to count.

The patience of Job he has.

Thank you to our most learned senior Bazza. I think you figured out beforehand how it would be accepted. 

Why anyone else would have any want to do with the "gimmick" is beyond me.

 

Cheers 

Stephen"

 

Members, I know first hand what it is like to be "bullied", "intimidated", and shown "disrespect" on the forum (I refer you to my "Tsuba casting molds" thread).  This forum is "fantastic" and a great place to learn new things and meet fine and knowledgable individuals. 

 

However, everyone has a choice.  If you don't like what is being said, then don't respond - the choice is yours.  

 

If no one responded to "Gimmick" then the thread would end.  Yet, there are evidently those that feel "they must defend" their "opinions" (without verifiable quoted research).  Much the same situation as on the "Tsuba casting molds" thread!  Whatever!  I guess there are more "posts" to come!

 

Always, with respect,

Dan

 

 

[Gimmick]

37 minutes ago, NewB said:

Hello Ferry,

 

I'd like to ask you nicely to please not disrespect the folks that are doing nothing but trying to help you out - for free.

 

I've personally met some and I can reassure you they are true, knowledgeable staples in the Nihonto world some of which with over 40 years of experience. I think the approach you have is wrong and just to be clear why I think that - the most of the folks that have plenty of books and time spent examining blades are quiet. It's the attitude I believe. 

 

Also you've been asked to take photos that can help make a parallel research with the information available at hand. I still don't understand why you wouldn't just provide what's asked. 

 

Last, I'm willing to submit the blade to shinsa in April in Chicago for you, as long as you pay for the submission fees and shipping/insurance. I don't want anything for the legwork! I'm not sure whether a blade in need of restoration can be submitted to shinsa though.

 

These are the best things I can suggest for you. Cheers

 

J.

Hi J.

 

Some of you might find it hard to believe and call me a liar, but I've had appreciative PM's from people who enjoy me standing up to the bullies on this forum, who are rude and unwelcoming to newcomers. If you see attitude in my posts towards some individuals, they are simply reaping what they have sown.

 

As for the folks staying quiet but contributing to the 2,400 views in a couple of days... Many people simply don't like confrontation, and if they think me unworthy of their input, I have no hard feelings. It is beyond me why any one else would have any want to do with the gimmick as well, yet you guys can't click this thread quick enough.

 

 

I have taken photos of the signature to the best of my ability. God willing the sword will soon be sold, and it is up to the new owner to decide on things like certification and restoration. Perhaps he will take you up on the offer if he happens to be located in the USA and wants to disclose his identity. And for the next 7.5 hours the bet is on the table if people want to put their money where their mouth is. I personally don't care, and I have not once in this thread solicited an opinion on the authenticity of the mei, only on the meaning of the kanji.

 

My wish was to bring this Japanese sword to the attention of those who love them. That I ruffled some feathers in the process is if anything a bonus and is welcomed by people who have PM'd me. Brian can stop me any time he pleases, yet he chose to say things like this:

 

11 hours ago, Brian said:

You know the story about the guy who reached rock bottom, and has now started to dig? You're wasting your time with Japanese swords. Really wasting it. Stick with mass produced weapons from countries that speak English. You realize that even Kukhri are described in traditional terms, right? So are Keris. Adapt or die....I see you are choosing the latter. Jy mors jou eie tyd, asook almal s'n.

As for Jacques...keep going. Any minute now I'm going to realize we don't really need a troll under the bridge.

 

Is that becoming of a host? Belittling me and threatening the other forum member that expresses doubt over claims about Gimei.

 

Yet I kneel humbly before the administrator/emperor, and ask him to accept my sword.

 

If tomorrow this thread hits 3k views, you guys are entertained no matter how much you loathe me.

 

Cheers

F.

 

 

[Stephen]

More like watching a train wreck than being entertained. 

SMH im out.

[NewB]

13 minutes ago, Gimmick said:

Hi J.

 

Some of you might find it hard to believe and call me a liar, but I've had appreciative PM's from people who enjoy me standing up to the bullies on this forum, who are rude and unwelcoming to newcomers. If you see attitude in my posts towards some individuals, they are simply reaping what they have sown.

 

As for the folks staying quiet but contributing to the 2,400 views in a couple of days... Many people simply don't like confrontation, and if they think me unworthy of their input, I have no hard feelings. It is beyond me why any one else would have any want to do with the gimmick as well, yet you guys can't click this thread quick enough.

 

 

I have taken photos of the signature to the best of my ability. God willing the sword will soon be sold, and it is up to the new owner to decide on things like certification and restoration. Perhaps he will take you up on the offer if he happens to be located in the USA and wants to disclose his identity. And for the next 7.5 hours the bet is on the table if people want to put their money where their mouth is. I personally don't care, and I have not once in this thread solicited an opinion on the authenticity of the mei, only on the meaning of the kanji.

 

My wish was to bring this Japanese sword to the attention of those who love them. That I ruffled some feathers in the process is if anything a bonus and is welcomed by people who have PM'd me. Brian can stop me any time he pleases, yet he chose to say things like this:

 

 

Is that becoming of a host? Belittling me and threatening the other forum member that expresses doubt over claims about Gimei.

 

Yet I kneel humbly before the administrator/emperor, and ask him to accept my sword.

 

If tomorrow this thread hits 3k views, you guys are entertained no matter how much you loathe me.

 

Cheers

F.

 

 

 

I ran my mouth many times here and in real life...  still think I should have just let go. But we are all different-you don't have to follow my suggestion. About how topic progresses - most folks like drama, I don't. 😆 

 

I think the blade is good (sho shin) based on the features I see on my Sukenaga but I'm not in a position to make a call. 

 

Godspeed!

 

J.

[Okan]

Why can't you just say thank you and move on? If you don't agree with us, thats fine, just move on...Also, do you think we should spend hours to prove you wrong? I don't think so..do it yourself. You are not convinced we are capable identifying swords? Great..why are you still here? 

 

There were other people like you coming and going time to time..they usually found a sword somewhere and looking to hear nice things about it..they are here to "show" their sword...they all think they are holding a treasure in their hands..and when they don't hear what they want to hear, they become hostile..and they talk..just like you..trying to prove us wrong, without ZERO knowledge. 

 

I call those people "Attention W.hores" They are seeking attention by using systematic contradiction. And they enjoy doing this..They usually have a short life here, they vanish once we stop responding and feeding them. Unlike you, most of them were grown ups. 

 

It's time to stop feeding you kid..You really should go back to your toy watch collectors club or whatever and pick your fights there with your peers.

You'll be done with Nihonto once you sell your precious family heirloom anyways.

 

I'm out. 

 

Doei Doei! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gimmick]

11 minutes ago, Okan said:

Why can't you just say thank you and move on? If you don't agree with us, thats fine, just move on...Also, do you think we should spend hours to prove you wrong? I don't think so..do it yourself. You are not convinced we are capable identifying swords? Great..why are you still here? 

 

There were other people like you coming and going time to time..they usually found a sword somewhere and looking to hear nice things about it..they are here to "show" their sword...they all think they are holding a treasure in their hands..and when they don't hear what they want to hear, they become hostile..and they talk..just like you..trying to prove us wrong, without ZERO knowledge. 

 

I call those people "Attention W.hores" They are seeking attention by using systematic contradiction. And they enjoy doing this..They usually have a short life here, they vanish once we stop responding and feeding them. Unlike you, most of them were grown ups. 

 

It's time to stop feeding you kid..You really should go back to your toy watch collectors club or whatever and pick your fights there with your peers.

You'll be done with Nihonto once you sell your precious family heirloom anyways.

 

I'm out. 

 

Doei Doei! 

 

Showing your true colors. Lovely. White male boomers being abusive. What else is new? Keep it coming guys. Who is next?

 

If I am the kid you think I am, ten years from now I will be able to dance on your graves and buy your precious papered nihonto for pennies on the dollar when your offspring gets rid of them.

[Gimmick]

2.6k views. 7 hours left for the experts to step up. You know who you are. I'm ready to take some more abuse if you feel so inclined. Then I will remind you of your imminent mortality and advise you to spend the few years you have left more wisely. Go get your fifth jab before the corona gets you! Okan crossed a line and there is no going back. I will keep piling the boomer bodies until Brian stops me.

 

Or we can go back to discussing Sukekane nihonto.

[David Flynn]

This is becoming ridiculous.  I believe it's time to close this thread.

[Jacques D.]

Again I think (based on many oshigata) that nothing supports the gimei theory. The hamon is the one made by this blacksmith and the style of engraving corresponds to that of the school.  I add that Sukekane is not a big name (rated chujo).

 

 

On the other hand, I wonder about the Sukekane posted by Okan.  

[rematron]

I’d like to remind everybody that the mei was never directly called fake. It was speculated as a possibility. None of us, especially me, can definitively say one way or the other. People have stated their opinions and by the popularity of the thread, there are a lot of them. The next step is for the sword to be seen in hand by an expert. Whether or not to engage in that  process will be up to some future owner, I’m guessing. Nothing else needs to be said. Right?

[Gimmick]

24 minutes ago, David Flynn said:

This is becoming ridiculous.  I believe it's time to close this thread.

Do it, Brian. It will be a good death.

 

 

10 minutes ago, rematron said:

I’d like to remind everybody that the mei was never directly called fake. It was speculated as a possibility. None of us, especially me, can definitively say one way or the other. People have stated their opinions and by the popularity of the thread, there are a lot of them. The next step is for the sword to be seen in hand by an expert. Whether or not to engage in that  process will be up to some future owner, I’m guessing. Nothing else needs to be said. Right?

 

Perfect.

 

 

The opinions in this thread are all... Perfect.

 

[Gimmick]

2.7k views. Keep clicking guys. You honor this "Attention W.hore".

 

It's been fun today. No takers on the friendly bet though. Maybe in the morning if I can still log in? Peace be with you.

[Alex A]

For what its worth, one more that thinks there is a decent chance its genuine. but as mentioned a million times on here its never easy from images, especially poor images.

 

Bickering with folk wont help you to sell it, you just narrow the field, a lot.

 

Folk new to the site often get upset when someone says something contradictory about their sword but that's how it goes. I bet someone could post a papered blade here and some folk would still say its gimei.

 

All just opinions, from educated and not so educated on a particular subject.

 

That's forums, live with it.

 

[Brian]

Ah, love timezones. This is what I wake up to?
Perry, you must think this is some car forum where memes are the standard reply, and insulting everyone is part of the fun.
You need your head read. And the constant "Boomer" jokes on a forum where the average age is above 50 is just plain ridiculous.
I don't care whether it's gimei or not. Doesn't matter....on project swords signed by average smiths, it matters little. You aren't questioning this sword anyways. You are challenging the entire 1000 year old tradition. You have insulted the NBTHK, and decided for yourself that the entire shinsa process is a joke.
Never mind the insults to various long term and respected members. You rattle a donation in front of me like it's a carrot? Keep it guy...I have standards.
I could write a few pages more on why this whole debate is pathetic, but I have an actual job too and little time for bit parts who think they know more than people who spent their lives studying.
Go find another sandpit to play in. You said all I have to do is ask you to stop posting? Done. Stop posting. If you like, I can do it for you. But I suspect you'll keep your word at least.

[DoTanuki yokai]

I’m late for the party…

I think the blade looks promising but I think a picture of the Nioiguchi can tell us if this is a real Sukekane. (Narrow tight line should be visible in this condition with the right light)

 

The Hamon looks like what Sukekane did but it is not the textbook style Yokoyama Choji that is more often seen on Sukenaga blades. 
I’m not a big fan of the signature style but maybe the blade is singed by a Student (Miyamoto Kanenori?) 

 

Just for the people that love statistics and the chance of it being Gimei, I have a good one:
 

Jacques D. does not say it is Gimei, so it is most likely  shoshin  

 

(I respect his way of Nihonto study even if it looks like not many members here do) 

If you want to sell the blade you can sent me a message Ferry.

 

[Dan tsuba]

Brian,

 

I know you have a “massive” job to do taking on the responsibilities of this forum.  And I for one have always appreciated your endeavors and hard work.

 

Asking “Gimmick” to stop posting is a viable solution to what is going on in the thread.  I guess you can also stop him from posting, lock the thread, or remove the thread completely.

 

But, why not let him post?  Like I stated before if no one responds, then in a short time “Gimmick’s” thread will just naturally “fizzle out”. 

 

This will send him a clear message that no one is really interested anymore, and we have all "moved on"!

 

Maybe that is another option?

 

Always, with respect,

Dan

[Matsunoki]

Personally I think this whole thread should be deleted totally. Just my opinion but I find it so offensive and abusive that it should have no place on a forum that operates with respect, courtesy and tolerance of opposing views (well, mostly!)

To say you will dance on someone’s grave is utterly unforgivable. 
I wonder what any “newbies” would make of this forum reading crap like that. It discredits everything we enjoy.

Brian….just my opinions but I bet others might share them. I’m not telling you your job but boy you have amazing tolerance…..thank you.

Some of you have educated me recently regards “cancel culture”…..this is a meritorious contender?

[Brian]

Dan,
I haven't banned him, or locked his account. If he chooses to participate the way we do and civilly, I have no problem. But this particular thread is done. If he doesn't insult me or others further, he's welcome to list it for sale here like he was proposing. The sword remains very nice.

[Gimmick]

12 hours ago, Brian said:

You said all I have to do is ask you to stop posting? Done. Stop posting. If you like, I can do it for you. But I suspect you'll keep your word at least.

I have kept my word, but Brian has granted me permission to continue posting "if he chooses to participate the way we do and civilly". This thread went from 2.7k to 3.3k views since I stopped posting. But as Brian said, this particular thread is done. I'm only here to say that I listed my "project sword signed by an average smith" days ago and it sold pretty much within hours, to someone who is not offended by my satire and dark humor, and the transaction has since been completed. He values both the wakizashi and the military provenance, and I will provide him with a copy of my grandfather's memoires that he wrote in English, titled: My years as a prisoner of war of the Imperial Japanese Army, by European Homeguard sergeant 1st class J. van Haastert.

 

I will leave it to the buyer to disclose his identity. If he decides to restore it, you might get a better look at that lovely hamon. I am honored that the buyer will be the next custodian, and I think my grandfather would be very happy if he knew that someone would read his memoires so many years later. My grandfather was not attached to it, he gave it to my father on a random day without any backstory. I think he would have loved the research I have done, and the answers some of you have generously provided. I don't think he would have loved my particular brand of discourse, but I'm having some lovely private conversations with NMB members, so I can't actually be the devil.

 

I've actually modeled my provocative satire after my favorite baby boomer, though technically being born in 1943 he is not a baby boomer. It is none other than Jim Morrison, who enjoyed The Living Theatre and Artaud:

"For Artaud, theatre could transcend fiction and become life – not acting but action. He used taboo images (death, incest and scandal) to SHOCK audience members into an infectious madness."

 

Would you believe it that I have an IQ of 130+? You've all been unknowing participants in an art performance, you've been played like a fiddle, to the point where Brian was forced to do as I told him, which was to tell me to stop posting. Now that is art. Live art. All the ideas you have in your mind about who I am are reflections of yourselves. The "Gimmick" you perceived in this thread is your Shadow Self, Carl Jung might say.

 

Or maybe I'm just a d*ck and a bullsh*t artist "who needs his head read"? Either way, I've gifted an antique Nihonto to the community, and I hope it will be enjoyed for many years to come. Don't you worry, I won't be dancing on anyone's grave, I wish you long life and prosperity.

[Brian]

10 hours ago, Gimmick said:

Would you believe it that I have an IQ of 130+? You've all been unknowing participants in an art performance, you've been played like a fiddle, to the point where Brian was forced to do as I told him, which was to tell me to stop posting. Now that is art. Live art. All the ideas you have in your mind about who I am are reflections of yourselves. The "Gimmick" you perceived in this thread is your Shadow Self, Carl Jung might say.

Yeah? Well guess what? My IQ is higher than that. And guess who was the one really being played? I was in the mood for light entertainment. Ever wonder why I didn't lock this earlier or just boot you? Because you were light entertainment. Just like another member who walks the thin ice regularly. Sometimes the forum needs the occasional troll or jester or person to show us all what a contrarian looks like. You should have realized that you were the one being played for the sake of education and amusement. The fact that decent experienced members largely ignored you, completely sailed over your head. Even Stephen was able to restrain himself far beyond his usual preference. Guys like you are a reminder of why we study a subject the way we do, why compromise in those studies is not an option, and how much self sacrifice it takes to stay the road. Thanks for the entertainment and reminders. Glad the sword has a good home. At least you achieved your goal of passing it on to someone who will do the right thing. It will live on, and so will your grandfather's memory. And that's the most important thing. Now you made your money and sold the sword. I wonder if you will acknowledge that with a small contribution for the end result? I guess that will say a lot more than anything you or I can say.
Till the next guy pops his head up....adieu.