Info on this Wakizashi?

[jdawg221]

Bought this edo period waki in koshirae for 880. Its mumei, and id like to see what school or smith it is attributed to. Is around 20 inches in length. 

[Mark S.]

I know everyone would love to do their best… but unfortunately, it will be difficult to give you any type of attribution by the pics provided.  Very difficult to see hamon, activity in steel, hamon shape in boshi, file marks on nakago, etc.  All of these are important for any type of attribution.  Edo period is an acceptable first call, but that is a wide attribution.  More pics showing as much detail as possible and I recommend you switch to a solid background.  The picture of the blade underneath is a bit distracting.  Take a look at some of the other posts showing pictures that highlight activity.  It is NOT easy to take good pictures of blades, so don’t be discouraged.  Try different lighting and at different angles.  I find a single light sources in a dark room sometimes helps.  Best of luck!

[jdawg221]

1 hour ago, Mark S. said:

I know everyone would love to do their best… but unfortunately, it will be difficult to give you any type of attribution by the pics provided.  Very difficult to see hamon, activity in steel, hamon shape in boshi, file marks on nakago, etc.  All of these are important for any type of attribution.  Edo period is an acceptable first call, but that is a wide attribution.  More pics showing as much detail as possible and I recommend you switch to a solid background.  The picture of the blade underneath is a bit distracting.  Take a look at some of the other posts showing pictures that highlight activity.  It is NOT easy to take good pictures of blades, so don’t be discouraged.  Try different lighting and at different angles.  I find a single light sources in a dark room sometimes helps.  Best of luck!

ill try to get better pics, Thanks!

[ROKUJURO]

JMB (please give us your first name so we can address you politely),

What Mark said plus: Please show all blade pictures tip-upwards! 

What little can be said about the SAYA: It looks like a HANDACHI SAYA.

You mention an attribution; did you get one together with the blade?

[jdawg221]

Nope, no attribution. Seller estimated 1650s for when the blade was made. Camera on my phone is a little meh, my bad for photo quality issues

[jdawg221]

also you can call me Jonathan

[jdawg221]

25 minutes ago, ROKUJURO said:

JMB (please give us your first name so we can address you politely),

What Mark said plus: Please show all blade pictures tip-upwards! 

What little can be said about the SAYA: It looks like a HANDACHI SAYA.

You mention an attribution; did you get one together with the blade?

Friend of mine who studies yamato school swords in Japan estimated that it may either be kashu or kongobyoe

[Okan]

Hey Jonathan, 

 

Can you measure the area on the picture. Also, in real life is color of the nakago looks more black-ish than the pictures? 

 

 

[jdawg221]

16 minutes ago, Okan said:

Hey Jonathan, 

 

Can you measure the area on the picture. Also, in real life is color of the nakago looks more black-ish than the pictures? 

 

 

Sure! One second, Ill need to remove the tsuka 

[Okan]

While you are at it, can you also measure the blade from that "red" line to the tip of blade

[ROKUJURO]

Jonathan,

thank you! These photos are a little bit better so we can guess what the HAMON is like

But do you know what HADA is? It is not visible in these photos which might be a problem of the camera or of the state of polish. Knowing the HADA can be helpfull in assessing the blade to a period or school. 

The KOSHIRAE is indeed HANDACHI style, but I don't think the blade is KONGOBYOE or KAGA/KASHÛ. To me it looks like an EDO period blade.

[Okan]

Looking at the sori, I have a feeling this will turn out as a Shinshinto(19th century) made in Koto(pre 16th century) style..

 

[jdawg221]

nagasa is around 21 inches. distance at munemachi is aroun 1 3/32 inches

[jdawg221]

also the rust on it is a very dark brown almost black

[jdawg221]

Hopefully these pics catch the hada better

[Okan]

Ok it’s not shinshinto and most probably koto. 

[jdawg221]

55 minutes ago, Okan said:

Ok it’s not shinshinto and most probably koto. 

Cool! Any estimation of what era it may be? Muromachi probably?

[jdawg221]

https://photos.app.goo.gl/f34sJreAgUn93oca8

 

heres a photo album with more pics on it

[jdawg221]

Friend changed his guess to tensho era, maybe earlier. Also said it might be a kaga blade

[NewB]

Hello

 

Tensho was my gut check but I'm in the beginning of my studies so don't quote me on it. If it's pretty thick and without any flaws that warrant an expensive restoration And if you didn't spend much And if you truly want to know - April Shinsa in Chicago  is coming pretty fast. I'm sure many would be willing to submit it if you want an expert's answer. Then you'll have a papered blade. Not bad overall 

 

Cheers

 

J.

[ROKUJURO]

Jonathan,

KAGA NAKAGO look indeed typically like this:
 

but I think your blade is not that old. My impression is mid EDO, but that is all guesswork on the basis of photos. You need to show your blade to experts 'in hand', so John's proposal (Chicago) sounds like a good one.

[Okan]

6 hours ago, jdawg221 said:

Friend changed his guess to tensho era, maybe earlier. Also said it might be a kaga blade

 

Finding era is much harder than finding its period unless there is a huge marker..Like, Kanbun era swords are usually a bit straight..So if the period matches and the blade is straight there is a huge chance the sword was made in Kanbun era, which is what we call Kanbun Shinto. I wonder how your friend came up with Tensho era..Maybe he meant late Muromachi period..

 

[jdawg221]

Thanks! I'll have to see if I can make it to that. He also mentioned it might be late muromachi. Here's the pics I added to that album. Understand it's super difficult to tell based off pics, but the infor you guys are giving me is greatly appreciated 

[Okan]

These pics are really not very good Jonathan. To show the hada you have to go closer..You can also use a magnifier if you have reached the limits of your phone/camera..Don't hold the blade and try to take picture with your other hand  Result will always be fuzzy..

 

[jdawg221]

1 hour ago, Okan said:

These pics are really not very good Jonathan. To show the hada you have to go closer..You can also use a magnifier if you have reached the limits of your phone/camera..Don't hold the blade and try to take picture with your other hand  Result will always be fuzzy..

 

Sorry about that! These should be a bit better. I dont have a flashlight in my apartment atm, so i had to use my lamp lol. If these arent good enough ill just get a flashlight and take proper pics

[jdawg221]

hada looks like itame or mokume to me

[Mark S.]

Pictures are getting better 

[Okan]

Pics are definitely better but not there yet  Some pictures I see straight lines so looks more like Masame hada to me..

[NewB]

👋 

 

I'd like to offer a totally out of the blue guess based on few things I noticed in the OP's recent photographs.  

 

Owari Shinto 

 

Cheers

 

J.

[jdawg221]