Newbie to Swords and Forum

csmith1969 · January 28, 2023

I got these from my father in-law after he passed away and really don't have any history, other than his family recalls they came back from WWII with a relative. No experience with swords. Just trying to figure out how to figure the value so I can make a decision what to do with them. Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks

NewB · January 28, 2023

Hello and welcome,

FIRST, read a bit about how to take care of nihonto - do not try to clean anything and please do not touch the steel with bare hands.

You can use any non abrasive cloth while trying to disassemble the blade from its outfit (usually they are held by a wooden pin that is located right in the middle below the guard. If you are able to expose the tang by yourself then snap some good photos of both side along with:

-Vertical photo of the whole blade 'naked' (please do NOT set it on the floor, any material would be better than leaving it directly onto a hard surface).

-pictures of the tip (both sides)

- pictures of the folded steel - try area where there's no scratches and rust. Playing with light angles could be exhausting but there's no other way around it. I usually have a dimmed light in a dark room at about 45' of light towards blade angle for best results.

If you can't remove the tang cover please supply photos of the location right below the guard where the pin is, for further instructions

Cheers

J.

P.S. do not hurry up and read a bit on it. Plenty of information on the forum

Also I'm referring to the first and last vertically positioned blades in your photo.

WillFalstaff · January 29, 2023

So, the beefcake sword on the left is the Japanese sword. Cannot tell if it is a traditionally made sword as that would need detailed pics as NewB said above.

At top is what looks like an early 1800’s foot artillery man’s short sword. To the right of the Japanese sword are most likely a European sword, then a Civil War era calvary saber, and a machete in a sheath.

I think some of the folks on here can guide you to forums and websites that deal with non-Japanese items.

Good luck!

csmith1969 · January 29, 2023

Additional pics once I removed from the handle.

csmith1969 · January 29, 2023

Pictures of both sides of the tip. Appreciate any thoughts. Thanks!!

NewB · January 29, 2023

Nicely done!!!

I'll leave it to the experts but it is signed (and dated).

Are the black spots in the blade (and in your photos) on the surface or indentations that go below? Like tiny holes in a sense?

P.s. since i dont see any stamps this is definitely worth having examined by an expert IMHO.

J.

csmith1969 · January 29, 2023

The are on the surface and not indentations into the blade.

NewB · January 29, 2023

11 minutes ago, csmith1969 said:

The are on the surface and not indentations into the blade.

Very good! Look up 'oil for nihonto' on the forum - small investment but it'd preserve it until you decide what you want to do with it. Someone more knowledgeable than me will definitely tell you the best route to go! I'd keep it haha

P.s. I know second character above the 'hole' is 'mitsu'... still learning hahaha

J.

cju777 · January 29, 2023

I think the signature is:

Muramitsu 村光

And date I think, year 皇紀

(koki) 2600, 10th month, lucky day.

Koki is the Imperial year system. 2060 is I think 1940.

Disclaimer just what is says I can’t validate gimei or not.

PNSSHOGUN · January 29, 2023

Wasn't able to find any Gendai smith signing with Muramitsu - 村光. This is clearly an original piece, perhaps there is a different reading to the characters.

NewB · January 29, 2023

2 minutes ago, PNSSHOGUN said:

Wasn't able to find any Gendai smith signing with Muramitsu - 村光. This is clearly an original piece, perhaps there is a different reading to the characters.

100%

J.

John C · January 29, 2023

Craig:

The skinny one in the middle of the original picture looks like the kind used by The Mason's. Many are from the 20's and 30's; many have the owners initials.

John C.

Brian · January 29, 2023

As John said, that one is a fraternal sword, maybe Freemason.

Bruce Pennington · January 29, 2023

The sword on the right is the Type 19 officer dress sword.

Stephen · January 30, 2023

I spent some time looking for Morimitsu...did we ever pin this guy down.

ROKUJURO · January 30, 2023

4 hours ago, Stephen said:

I spent some time looking for Morimitsu...did we ever pin this guy down?

Stephen,

please look for MURAMITSU 村光.

ROKUJURO · January 30, 2023

Craig,

the Japanese sword's NAKAGO (tang) has unfortunately been ground clean. That is a very bad thing and it greatly devalued the blade.

David Flynn · January 30, 2023

jean, generally cleaning a nakago is taboo. However, on a Gendaito, it's not that dramatic and shouldn't detract too much.

ROKUJURO · January 30, 2023

David,

in this case, a grinder was used which erased the YASURI-ME and took some steel off. A considerable WARE was exposed by this action. I would not want this on my GENDAITO. It is a severe damage to any blade in my eyes.

Stephen · January 30, 2023

48 minutes ago, ROKUJURO said:

Stephen,

please look for MURAMITSU 村光.

I ment Mura ...got in a hurry and didn't check

Stephen · January 30, 2023

I've had more than a few gendaito nakago like that I don't believe it was ground.

NewB · January 30, 2023

While my forum name clearly states my level of knowledge I disagree the nakago was altered unless the date and signature was added later. The Kanji look very crisp with the appropriate 'dimples' as outline that clearly warrant a sharp chisel work.

In an event of grinding no such 'lips' would be present but rather flat and sharp edges.

Just my observation

J.

PNSSHOGUN · January 31, 2023

Agree, the Nakago is original and the rust is only in the areas it has been held in the hand (as it should be for Gendai).

ROKUJURO · January 31, 2023

And the corrosion/patina is only in the characters (which is why they appear dark)? How do you produce that?

We should see the NAKAGO without TSUBA and HABAKI.

Bryce · January 31, 2023

G'day Guys,

I have to agree with Jean on this one. Compare below a nice, gendaito nakago from the same year as the subject blade. Craig can tell us if we are wrong.

Cheers,

Bryce

NewB · January 31, 2023

I'm sure you guys know more. My take comes from the photo attached. Same chisel outlines and aging inside the Kanji IMHO

J.

SteveM · February 1, 2023

相模國住靖要作

Sagami-no-kuni jū Yasukane saku

NewB · February 1, 2023

30 minutes ago, SteveM said:

相模國住靖要作

Sagami-no-kuni jū Yasukane saku

thank you @SteveM

i must have brought a bit of confusion. I posted it just to compare the patina to the original post’s nakago

always there to help, thank you again

j.

WillFalstaff · February 1, 2023

On 1/29/2023 at 8:39 AM, Bruce Pennington said:

The sword on the right is the Type 19 officer dress sword.

Yep! Bruce is right—can’t believe I missed the point area on the right-most sword. Absolutely not Civil War. I’ll go and contemplate the meaning of life in a dark corner now. :laughing: