Type 95 original?

[oristt]

Hello everyone, I hope your well.

 

Could you please give your thoughts on the originality of this type 95?

 

kind regards 

KT

[oristt]

[oristt]

[vajo]

Looks like a replica in bad shape.

 

Edit: I must revese it now the sword looks authentic.

[robinalexander]

If i was looking for a Type 95, I would definately not buy this.

[oristt]

Thanks for the reply Chirs, can I ask what points to its being a replica?

 

Thanks for the reply Rob, type 95’s seem some what thin on the ground here in the uk so the choices are limited 

[Bruce Pennington]

I see what you mean about the sides of the throat opening being flat.  The dimensions of the bohi seem off.  Photos aren't clear enough to see the detail of the bohi start and end, but they seem too imprecise for a Tokyo blade (more like what you would see on a Nagoya).  Also, I'd request a clear shot of the stamps on the fuchi from the seller.  Photo is too blurry to see them.  Serial numbers are a bit far down the blade, and the "TO" stamp is poorly crafted.  I have seen this style TO before, but added to all the other off details, it's a question.

 

Better photos of bohi and stamps are needed from seller.  Unless @Shamsy or @Stegel can quickly settle the matter.

[vajo]

The sword looks genuine now with the later pictures. So i edited this post.

 

 

 

 

[oristt]

Do the makes marks looks ok? These is the photo the seller sent me

[oristt]

26 minutes ago, vajo said:

Maybe it is authentic and the quality is bad? I would not buy it. It is dirty, the pictures are bad. We didn't see the fuchi stamps clearly. There is a lot of grease on the blade. The bo-hi looks suspect. The coloring is not nice.

 

But maybe I'm wrong. 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank your for sharing the details, I am yet to have one in hand to study 

[vajo]

Kyle the stamps on the fuchi looks good for me.

Hmm,

The clipper looks correct too on the  picture. Its made from forged Iron. 

I think now the sword is genuine.

Sorry for confusing you. But good pictures are allways needed.

 

The nanako looks not inverse now on the last picture you share.

 

 

[oristt]

36 minutes ago, vajo said:

Kyle the stamps on the fuchi looks good for me.

Hmm,

The clipper looks correct too on the  picture. Its made from forged Iron. 

I think now the sword is genuine.

Sorry for confusing you. But good pictures are allways needed.

 

The nanako looks not inverse now on the last picture you share.

 

 

Chirs Thank you, no problem at all I am happy that you took the time to take a look. Now you have pointed out the menuki details are embossed and not raise is correct?

[Bruce Pennington]

Agree with Chris, stamps are good.  I was also thinking “why would a fake have old cosmoline?”

 

Good photos make all the difference.

[vajo]

Yes Kyle, all is correct on this sword.

[Stegel]

Looks all genuine to me.

If you are set on collecting these, and there are not many to choose from, then depending on the price, it is ok for a first sword in my opinion.

Keep looking for a better one as it will eventually turn up and then you can decide if you want to sell it or not.

if the ‘bug’ bites, I think you’ll probably end up keeping it.

It looks like it will clean up nicely and present well with a little work!

 

I believe that Chris and Bruce have assessed it correctly for you.

[Shamsy]

Does the scabbard paint look too fresh? Either it's remarkably well preserved or it could be repainted. Or more likely it the photo.

 

The bohi and kissaki looked bad, but if you look at sword 4 and 3 respectively below, these also have the shallow scoop bohi and poorly defined kissaki. Nothing else is amiss, so as usual,judging the sword as a whole, genuine.

 

 

[Stegel]

If you look at the very first photo, you’ll see that there is nearly no paint at all, it is worn and rusty in appearance.

This sword has been through a lot and it shows.

The photo near the end is misleading as it does appear to be painted.

At first glance I thought the bohi had lacquer remaining in it, but it was old cosmoline.

[Kiipu]

This is a very good reproduction that has fooled many.  A Polish collector was the first one to ask questions about them and ever since they have been called the Polish fakes.  (However, it is not known if they are indeed made there).  The serial number font is incorrect and it is in a Suya serial number range.  It is not unusual to see these swords aged and additional artifacts placed with them to fool collectors.  For the record, I had about seven of these listed as real so they fooled me too.

Fake Type 95 Nco Swords, Page 8

[Shamsy]

Actually, it was me that first introduced the phrase 'Polish sword'. It came about when I found these swords, far better than the Indian made ones, for sale from Poland. They were not aged but new condition and listed as such, so they were reproduction and not intended to fool. But later, they started appearing with artificial aging and so entered the 'fake' arena. I called them Polish as this was the first place I found them.

[oristt]

3 minutes ago, Shamsy said:

Actually, it was me that termed the phrase Polish sword. It came about when I found these swords, far better than the Indian made ones, for sale from Poland. They were not aged but new condition and listed as such, so they were reproduction and not intended to fool. But later, they started appearing with artificial aging and so entered the 'fake' arena. I called them Polish as this was the first place I found them.

Steve, you feel this is one of the polish swords? 

[Shamsy]

Possibly. I'm looking at the stamps... the key thing with the Polish swords are the paint colours (I'm colour blind, but I'd call it a 'darker' shade of green which usually just pops out), the flatter, chiselled looking habaki markings spread a little further apart and the crappy bohi and serial numbers.

 

Crappy bohi and serial check, check.

 

Colour wise... maybe on the handle. I thought the saya was painted and not the darker green, so I thought that a good indication, but Stegel pointed out that it's not paint but rust, so that's a maybe.

 

The habaki stamps... I'm not sure. They are further apart than usual... not sure about the quality. The habaki has pretty thick patina...

 

On the plus side, it doesn't have that obnoxiously over bent retention latch common to Polish.

 

The thing with the Polish swords are that they are very good reproductions. It really is hard to pick them, especially when they are well aged.

 

Each sword must be judged as a whole. There are too many variations in quality and detail of the real things. That unfortunately starts to make it hard and the fact Iijima is the worst for quality and manufacture differences doesn't help.

 

 

[robinalexander]

Kyle, as I said earlier 'I wouldn't buy it' and my reasons for that are similar to others observations but to be clear, and this is my opinion only.......

 

From your initial pics what I didn't like......

 

1. the lack of clarity in seller pics .....sometimes done on purpose just to 'get things over the line'  but seller may just be newbie(?)

2. the colour of the paint on the tsuka ....really dark brown and reminiscent of recent 'aged' fakes.  But again could just be the tint in the particular picture.

3. the apparent difference in the colours of the saya between pics..  first full length shot of sword and saya it looks ok and used but later pic of saya looks like a repaint.... misleading and again, I wouldn't post pics that differ so much if I was trying to sell it.

4. the kissaki appears too elongated for Ijima.

5. I just dont like the look of the Kokura stamp on fuchi (but I accept there are many variations in distances, arrangements and striking of stamps)

6. the seppa is way different from my Ijima T O and doesn't appear to have any scalloping around the edge as is so common on these earlier 95's

7. although the blade numbers and inspection stamp look ok, they are so far down the blade and I cant say I have seen that before.

8. the bohi looks particularly wide, especially at the kissaki end and gee, its roughly cut.  

9. the top of the saya throat and number just look weird...repaint or just bad light and photography.....again is the seller trying to sell this or covering things up .... 

 

If it's been 'aged' then it's an excellent job ....I wouldn't go so far as to call it out as a fake BUT, I would never be happy with it and therefore wouldn't buy it unless it was so cheap it didn't matter.

 

I have posted a couple of pics of my Ijima T O hopefully to better explain my comments.  

 

[Kiipu]

I thought I would post the links to the initial appearance of these Iijima's.

NMB 2017-01-17: Nco Shin Gunto - Real Or Rotter?

WRF 2017-07-02: WRF Is it replica 95 NCO Sword shin gunto?

[Shamsy]

I had a look at my Iijima to compare. The more I look at it, the closer it appears to be the Polish sword made into a fake...

 

 

 

[Shamsy]

33 minutes ago, Kiipu said:

I thought I would post the links to the initial appearance of these Iijima's.

NMB 2017-01-17: Nco Shin Gunto - Real Or Rotter?

WRF 2017-07-02: WRF Is it replica 95 NCO Sword shin gunto?

 

Try this one. I believe this is the original thread that spawned the 'Polish' Swords term on NMB. I checked the other two. The WRF forum links to an Indian sword as the source. I later add "I was very careful when i bought my Iijima with Tokyo stamp and Iijima with Kokura stamp. Poland have been producing high quality replica IIjima 95's for a few years now."

 

So I obviously found out about these earlier than 2017.

 

I'm particularly happy to see that the WRF sword in question was from a collector in Poland. That supports my initial observations about these swords origins.

[Kiipu]

My all time favorite Iijima reproduction has to be this one!  How about that box.

WWII M95 NCO Sword Opinions Comments Wanted

[oristt]

Grate line up you have there steve 🤩

 

The reason why I asked on the sword was the mouth of the scabbard had straight sides and the menuki details are debossed were yours all embossed am I correct about this? 

 

 

[BANGBANGSAN]

I agree ,it's a Polish repro

[Shamsy]

2 hours ago, oristt said:

the menuki details are debossed were yours all embossed am I correct about this? 

 

You're right about that and great eye for detail.

[vajo]

Its indeed a minefieled 

Can we give that to the Typ 95 Fake section. 

 

Is that fuchi iron or something else?