Identify plant/flowers

[Okan]

Hey guys, 

 

I had this tsuba for a while and wondering if you can help me identify the plant on it? Thanks! 

[Spartancrest]

 

[Okan]

  On 1/25/2023 at 11:19 PM, Spartancrest said:

 

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Thank you Dale already looked at it before posting but I couldn't find it in there.

[ROKUJURO]

Okan,

that might well be a vegetable plant (cruciferous/Brassicaceae) and not a flower in the decorative sense. But it is not DAIKON, I think. 

[Bugyotsuji]

There is a new app I've seen advertised on TV where you point the phone and it tells you what the plant is. I wonder if it would work with artistic images such as a tsuba!?

 

PS I can see some similarities with Dokudami, a medicinal plant, but that is only a first guess until I can find a better comparison of the stalks.

ドクダミは英語で何？―🧐―#つぶやき英単語 1370 – Zuka隊長のつぶやき英単語 (eitango-collector.com)

 

[Okan]

It was a good idea and worth a try @Bugyotsuji but sadly didn't work..

[Okan]

  On 1/26/2023 at 12:19 AM, ROKUJURO said:

Okan,

that might well be a vegetable plant (cruciferous/Brassicaceae) and not a flower in the decorative sense. But it is not DAIKON, I think. 

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Checking all of them thanks Jean! 

[ROKUJURO]

Okan,

not mushrooms but flowers, I think. If you look at the colours of the metal, there are always five petals. In this case, I believe that these are meant to depict UME no HANA (plum twigs with flowers) but a bit stylized, 

[Bugyotsuji]

Jean, look at the flowers with four petals, on the tsuba at the top of the thread.

[Spartancrest]

I realise these are completely from a different school [or schools] but the leaves and in particular the four petal flowers are very close - these are from the Cleveland Museum of Art and the only description is  "Tsuba of Flowering vine".  The stems also show signs of segmented sections as does the original posted image. So we may be looking for a vine rather than a plant?

 

                                                                      

[Bugyotsuji]

Good sleuthing, Dale.

 

I am beginning t think these may be wasabi leaves and flowers, the wasabi leaf often described as being the true origin of the Tokugawa 'hollyhock' family mon. 

 

わさびの花 - 検索 画像 (bing.com)

[Matsunoki]

  On 1/26/2023 at 8:02 AM, Bugyotsuji said:

I am beginning t think these may be wasabi leaves and flowers,

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Agree.

[ROKUJURO]

  On 1/26/2023 at 2:00 AM, Bugyotsuji said:

Jean, look at the flowers with four petals, on the tsuba at the top of the thread.

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Piers, you are correct. I was only referring to the middle TSUBA picture with the mushroom-related text.

[ROKUJURO]

  On 1/26/2023 at 8:02 AM, Bugyotsuji said:

.....I am beginning to think these may be wasabi leaves and flowers..... わさびの花 - 検索 画像 (bing.com)

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Perfect Piers!

That's it! As I assumed, a cruciferous plant (Brassicaceae).

[Okan]

Yes!!! That looks right! Thanks a lot Pierce! And Dale and Jean of course!

 

 

[vajo]

wasabi didn't have knots like on the tsuba shown.

[Matsunoki]

  On 1/26/2023 at 1:41 PM, vajo said:

wasabi didn't have knots like on the tsuba shown.

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That is true! Japanese artists are usually very accurate in how they depict things so maybe we are wrong??

[vajo]

Young knotweed looks similar and it is often eaten in Japan. But the blossoms have five leaves not four.

Young knotweed looks total different from mature plants. I think it is knotweed.

[Bugyotsuji]

Buckwheat is related to knotweed.

Plants That Look Like Japanese Knotweed: Plants Mistaken For Knotweed (phlorum.com)

[MauroP]

I suggest Begonia grandis - 秋海棠 - shūkaidō.

See my updated "Flora Hoplologica Japonica" (I made a mess even of the title...)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yvqi0kb0nr69bcp/FHJ.pdf?dl=0

[Curran]

Once upon a time I asked the National Gardening Association  https://garden.org/ threads for help identifying the plant and flowers on a shodai Shimizu (Jingo).

The wealth of information and response I got back is the only thing that has ever rivaled -possibly exceeded- NMB for depth of knowledge.

 

Even as a former biologist, I was humbled with the response from the NGA crowd.

It has been a while since I have logged on there, but you may get some surprising traction if you can take the time to post there and wait a little bit.