Need double check of my translation, please.

[DTM72]

After much help from the NMB a Facebook group and some of my own searching on Kanji translation programs, I think I have this figured out. Please feel free to suggest corrections. This is a lot more than the usual Province, title, and name with date on the opposite side.

I took the picture and placed the kanji next to it, with the Japanese pronunciation in capitol letters, then the English meaning in small letters. Of course the dimensions on the right don't need to be translated, that is just my information for the sword. She will be going to shinsa in Chicago in April so I am excited to see her get official papers.

 

Thanks in advance to all!

 

Dan

 

 

[Nobody]

I am not 100% sure but my readings are as follows;

 

王子 – Oji (place name)

三狐 – sanko

 

黄金 - kogane

[DTM72]

13 hours ago, Nobody said:

I am not 100% sure but my readings are as follows;

 

王子 – Oji (place name)

三狐 – sanko

 

黄金 - kogane

Domo Arigato Moriyama san!

[Bugyotsuji]

Two things I wanted to say earlier. You probably know these, but just laying out markers here for anyone who doesn't.

 

One is that each kanji can have several 'correct' readings, depending on context. 

The other is that in people or place names for example, the meaning of the individual kanji is not so important, although sometimes it can help you remember a name.

 

田中 is for example ta/den + naka/chu/ju, so 'field' and 'inside/middle', but that is only secondary to the living Mr Tanaka who might be a sword smith, postal worker or traffic cop.

 

So ultimately, Dan, how do you turn all those translated kanji above into meaningful sentences? 

[SteveM]

Also, I have strong doubts about the "ta". It looks nothing like the calligraphic version of ta (田), so I'll stick to my guns and say I still think its　原 (hara - and when combined with Fuji it becomes Fujiwara). The calligraphic version of hara is also a bit different from the one on this sword, but it is less of a departure than 田 I think. And I'm open to the possibility that its something completely different, but both Fujita and Fujiwara fit within the context of this swordsmith.

 

 

 

Question for @Nobody Moriyama-san: is there a preference for "kogane" over "ōgon" in old scripts? 

 

[Bugyotsuji]

為 and 恵

Steve, have you considered (and rejected) these?

[Nobody]

How about 熱?

[k morita]

Hi,

It's  夢想　"MUSO" .

[Nobody]

5 hours ago, SteveM said:

.........................

 

Question for @Nobody Moriyama-san: is there a preference for "kogane" over "ōgon" in old scripts? 

 

 

In this case, 黄金 means gold as a raw material. So, I personally prefer reading “kogane” such as shirogane (silver), kurogane (iron), and akagane (cupper).

[SteveM]

Thanks to both. m(_ _)m

またも勉強になりました！

 

[DTM72]

18 hours ago, SteveM said:

Also, I have strong doubts about the "ta". It looks nothing like the calligraphic version of ta (田), so I'll stick to my guns and say I still think its　原 (hara - and when combined with Fuji it becomes Fujiwara). The calligraphic version of hara is also a bit different from the one on this sword, but it is less of a departure than 田 I think. And I'm open to the possibility that its something completely different, but both Fujita and Fujiwara fit within the context of this swordsmith.

 

 

 

Question for @Nobody Moriyama-san: is there a preference for "kogane" over "ōgon" in old scripts? 

 

So would the entire line translate to Fujiwara added gold (to this) sword?

[SteveM]

Check out Morita-san's post above, where he indicates those two characters are, in fact, 夢想 (musō) rather than 藤田 or 藤原. Musō means "to dream" or "to fantasize". Sorry to say this bit is opaque to me.  

 

As Moriyama-san says, the first characters could indicate a place name. The whole first part could be an allusion to some classic Chinese poetry or story. I really don't know. Together with the two extra signatures, and the two 4-word idioms on the opposite side, its a bit of a mysterious set of writings. 

[Jussi Ekholm]

It has been amazing to watch this evolve as members have put brains together. Unfortunately I don't know about smiths of this era but here is quote from Markus Sesko about this smith lineage adding gold, apparently 3rd and 4th gen did it.

 

Quote

he also signed with the supplement “Ka-ōgon tsukuru” (加黄金造) which means “forged with gold from Kaga,” another term for this kind of structure is dōtetsu-hada (銅鉄肌, list. “copper-iron mix hada”), it appears as dark, thick and wavy muji structures in the ji

 

 

[Bazza]

"copper-iron mix hardening" refers to dendritic hardening.  This has been written up in Nihontou literature sometime over the last 40 or 50 years, but see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dendrite_(metal) for an explanation of the principle.

Sorry I don't have time to explore further.

 

BaZZa.