Ato-bi or bo-bi

[jeremy]

I wanted to see what your opinion on this koto blade bohi is? One later added in our modern times or centuries ago? Is it possible to tell? The reason I ask is because I haven't seen this type of deep and wide bo-bi on a koto blade before ? 

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[Geraint]

Dear Jeremy.

 

Quite a normal hi, impossible to tell whether it's ato bori, I think it is Nakahara who says that all hi are ato bori because they are carved after the blade is forged. Some people will look at the open grain inside the hi and suggest that it was carved to obscure those, on the other hand it is quite likely that they were only exposed as the hi was cut so who knows?  Unless there are some clear clues one would assume that it is original to the sword.

 

ALl the best.

 

P.S.  Love the auto translate: "Horimono carving"  A piece of Chilean stick gutter is washed away under the habaki.

 

[jeremy]

Thanks for your reply . I haven't seen many bohi that end just like that in the habaki moto area, most I've seen on koto blades stop before the habaki or continue on the way through the nakago and this one looks very similar to bohi seen on modern nihonto which is why I was thinking it's a later addition.  

Jeremy 

[NewB]

Hello,

 

Nice topic. I agree with @Geraint and I agree with your observations. I myself would like to know when they were added on my old blades - at the blade’s inception or after (to hide a flaw). Cheers

 

 

 J.

[WillFalstaff]

@NewB That’s tough to determine. “The Art of the Japanese Sword” by the Kapps and Yoshihara has pictures of how the hi are added. It can easily be done to old swords, and to fresh ones from the smith, as the shinogi ji is softer un-hardened metal. 

[NewB]

9 minutes ago, WillFalstaff said:

@NewB That’s tough to determine. “The Art of the Japanese Sword” by the Kapps and Yoshihara has pictures of how the hi are added. It can easily be done to old swords, and to fresh ones from the smith, as the shinogi ji is softer un-hardened metal. 

 

Thank you. I appreciate the information. It makes me question the definition of some 'hi' types that make references to certain Era and schools. I presume some folks know how to tell the difference.

 

 

p.s. I guess identifying the rust and the suriage possibly contributed to such conclusions/determinations? Tough lol

 

 

J.

[Shugyosha]

Hi John,

 

As you say, the patina in the hi compared with the tang as a whole can tell the tale. With the sword highlighted, I think it might be a later addition as there is little or no corrosion inside the portion of the hi under the habaki compared with that of the rest of the nakago - might just be the photo though. It's not very well done anyhow.

 

It's worth mentioning that hi weren't always added for nefarious reasons: old age, injury and fencing style might also require a lighter blade and having one made to order might not be feasible financially for the owner.

 

In this case, I'd be more worried about what looks like a burn mark and loss of hamon about 6 inches up the blade.

[jeremy]

21 hours ago, Shugyosha said:

Hi John,

 

As you say, the patina in the hi compared with the tang as a whole can tell the tale. With the sword highlighted, I think it might be a later addition as there is little or no corrosion inside the portion of the hi under the habaki compared with that of the rest of the nakago - might just be the photo though. It's not very well done anyhow.

 

It's worth mentioning that hi weren't always added for nefarious reasons: old age, injury and fencing style might also require a lighter blade and having one made to order might not be feasible financially for the owner.

 

In this case, I'd be more worried about what looks like a burn mark and loss of hamon about 6 inches up the blade.

I think I agree about the later addition in regards to the amount of patina in the nakago- hi.  Also, looks more like modern bohi that one sees on nihonto made for iaido. Ie  , to lighten the blade etc...

[NewB]

The burn mark that was brought up is a great observation and a serious concern IMHO

 

J.

[jeremy]

11 minutes ago, NewB said:

The burn mark that was brought up is a great observation and a serious concern IMHO

 

J.

Yes true .