Katana with different hamon on both sides

[pcfarrar]

I have an interesting mumei suriage katana that has a completely different hamon on each side of the blade. The nagasa is 28" and its cut down from an original 34". It is in good quality gunto mounts and was surrendered in Jakarta to a British NCO in 1946.

 

The blade seems to be shin-shinto, can anyone suggest any schools that did swords with differing hamons on each side? One side is a wide regular mino style gunome with clumps of gunome in 2 pairs. The other side of the blade is a narrow ko-gunome midare with a few squids head choji in places. Hamons on both sides are nie based. Jigane is itame.

My first thoughts on looking at the blade was that it reminded me of a Kinmichi wak I once owned. Another potential kantei point is that the kasane remains constant at 0.7cm from hamachi to kissaki.

 

Thanks,

 

Peter

 

1st side:

 

 

 

2nd side:

 

 

 

[Jacques D.]

Hi,

 

Shodai Yasutsugu produced ko no te gashiwa (different hamon on each side).

[reinhard]

The "konnote gashiwa"-concept harks back to Tegai KANENAGA and Kamakura times. It has been known ever since, but it was applied to swords very rarely.

 

reinhard

[pcfarrar]

Do you think its possible this sword could be older than shin-shinto?

 

The bo-hi also seems to be original to the sword as it goes into the nakago and terminates just above the original mekugi-ana.

[george trotter]

Hi Peter,

A (not very good) photo of a sword with different hamon like yours is to be found in "Japanese Swords and Fittings in the Western Australian Museum" (item 77, p.109).

The sword is late shinshinto or gendaito and is signed tachimei: Bizen Kuni Osafune ju nin Kunimune saku. The blade nagasa is 68.7. Masame/itame hada. The hamon is Ura: suguba wirh nijuba and some notare. Omote: choji with tobiyaki.

 

Koshirae is gunto type 98 with a nice iron civilian tsuba with crane and pine needles. A surrender tag is attached "Army Lt. Ichise Kokichi".

 

The sword has no bo-hi like yours but seems to be of the same period. I was unable to find a record of this Kunimune c.1900. It is interesting that such curious swords do still turn up occasionally.

 

Regards,

George Trotter

[pcfarrar]

Here is the shape and nakago if it helps:

[george trotter]

Hi again,

just looking at your new pics, I would say that the sword looks older than shinshinto. It is often hard to tell from photographs, but the clues are in the overall shape and in the nakago. It LOOKS like the lowest mekugi hole is at the very tip of the nakago, suggesting that the sword has been greatly shortened. If this is correct, then the two clearly visible holes are bored after shortening. Again, if this is so, I would say that the bo-hi were added after the shortening and possibly when the sword was shortened (machi-okuri?) a second time.

I think you have an interesting sword which may be much older than you first thought.

Regards,

George Trotter

[reinhard]

Another potential kantei point is that the kasane remains constant at 0.7cm from hamachi to kissaki.

 

Hi Peter,

 

This is pointing to a later date of manufacture; ShinShinTo or later. Does the blade feel well-balanced or top-heavy when lifted? Many ShinShinTo and GendaiTo feel like a bag of stones compared to their handy predecessors.

 

reinhard

[Guido]

The Ishido school produced swords with different Hamon on each side during Bakumatsu / the late Edo period. Sorry, no sources, but I'm pretty sure I remember this correctly.

[nagamaki - Franco]

Another potential kantei point is that the kasane remains constant at 0.7cm from hamachi to kissaki.

 

Hi Peter,

 

This is pointing to a later date of manufacture; ShinShinTo or later. Does the blade feel well-balanced or top-heavy when lifted? Many ShinShinTo and GendaiTo feel like a bag of stones compared to their handy predecessors.

 

reinhard

 

Greetings All,

 

Must concur with Reinhard on this point. An even width for the full length of the mune points towards a later period. Also, the partial mekugi-ana at the end of the nakago jiri could have been part of a double mekugi-ana which was not uncommon for a long sword with a fairly long nakago of the Shinshinto period. This would make sense with the bo-hi being where it is and the second mekugi-ana being where it is as the original.

[pcfarrar]

Does the blade feel well-balanced or top-heavy when lifted?

 

Yes it is quite a heavy blade.

 

 

The Ishido school produced swords with different Hamon on each side during Bakumatsu / the late Edo period. Sorry, no sources, but I'm pretty sure I remember this correctly.

 

Interestingly enough I showed the sword to an experienced collector of Ishido school work and he thought it was late edo Bizen.

[george trotter]

Hi again Peter,

I have owned a couple of Ishido group blades including one by Mitsuhira...neither resembled this work you have here. Your friend says he thinks the work looks like late Edo Bizen, which could conceivably coincide with the work of the Bizen smith Kunimune I mentioned above. On the point of the mekugi ana at the nakago jiri, could you say if the hole is bored clean and straight sided like the two upper ones (ie bored at the same time?), or is it rounded and older looking?

Regards,

George Trotter.

[Guido]

FWIW: just found an example of an Ishido Korekazu Tantô. And since the Ishido group were masters of copying and emulating Bizen swords (right down to producing Utsuri), I wouldn't rule them out as a possibly having forged the sword being discussed in this thread. Just MHO, your mileage may vary.

[Jacques D.]

Hi,

 

The shodai Yasutsugu i stated above (does not resemble yours) :

 

[pcfarrar]

On the point of the mekugi ana at the nakago jiri, could you say if the hole is bored clean and straight sided like the two upper ones (ie bored at the same time?), or is it rounded and older looking?

 

It's the same as the second mekugi ana, same diameter also. I would think they were both done at the same time.

[nihonto1001]

From the looks of the nakago, I am going to go with much older than shin-shinto, possibly even muromachi period. Is that crab claw hamon I see?

 

Jon

[pcfarrar]

From the looks of the nakago, I am going to go with much older than shin-shinto, possibly even muromachi period. Is that crab claw hamon I see?

 

Yes it does have crab claws in the hamon.

[george trotter]

Your comment on the mekugi ana being the same as the "second" one (i presume this to be the lower of the two upper holes) seems to confirm Franco's comment that the nakago probably had two holes when made and was then shortened. This also suggests you were right about the bo hi being original. It seems then that you will have to study blade shape and and kitae to narrow down the schools. I have also owned Yasutsugu blades including Yasutsugu Echizen sandai and (I think) Musashi seventh, and they did not conform to this work either (IMHO). So....study, study.

Regards

George Trotter.

[george trotter]

I just noticed the comment suggesting Muromachi period. It is possible from the shape that the blade is even earlier. Your point that the blade is an even thickness for its entire length is common on a blade that has lost its nakago entirely... this is reinforced by the overall shape which has virtually no reduction between ha-machi and the tip...this would also mean the bo-hi were added after the blade was shortened. The rust also suggests the tang is not likely to be a shinshinto tang which has been shoryened later and then re-rusted. Just an observation.

George Trotter

[reinhard]

Pictures are not very reliable, but hada seems to be a very tight and crisp ko-itame. This is typical for many swords from Bakumatsu times and later. Constricted nioi-guchi (shimari-gokoro) is pointing towards this direction too.

 

reinhard

[Eddie]

Hi Peter,

 

I owned a shinto period katana signed Harima No kami Masamichi many years ago, it was in high quality shingunto mounts also. It had a different hamon on each side as well.

 

one side had similar hamon to yours, crab claw, i cant remember what the other side had, ive got some pictures but they are on film, before the days of digital photography.

 

But hope this info helps some.

 

regards Edward

[pcfarrar]

Hi Peter,

 

I owned a shinto period katana signed Harima No kami Masamichi many years ago, it was in high quality shingunto mounts also. It had a different hamon on each side as well.

 

 

Thanks Eddie, I assume that Masamichi is a mishina school smith?