What is this motif?

[Deez77]

Hi all,

 

Does anyone have a clue about the motif of this Kinai tsuba I have? I assumed gear of some sort, but that was just a guess. I've seen some described as sun rays, but those have a clearly less symmetrical design than mine.

 

Many thanks for any inputor insights.

 

Damon

 

[Bugyotsuji]

We had a meeting of the UK Token in Birmingham a few years back discussing these tsuba.

 

The quick answer was a) the 'rays' behind certain Catholic motifs, also b) Tokei clock cogged wheels, and c) crossover pieces which are not clearly one nor 'tother. 

[GRC]

Piers summed that one up pretty neatly  

It's always those "crossover" pieces that are the toughest.

I wish we could find some sort of period document that states the smith's intent on any of these not-so-clearly-defined motifs, and whether or not they intended their design to be a cross-over, or if it was just coincidence.

I'm sure each scenario will be correct for different tsuba, but most likely, we'll always be left wondering...

 

Damon, personally, I would place yours in the tokei "clock gear" category.

 

If you look up images of Jesuit art, the rays tend to be more irregularly spaced with different lengths and thicknesses.

and they sometimes use these more curvy flame-like rays:

 

 

Here's one up for sale now that is listed as "gear", but I would say this one definitely isn't a gear (good luck running anything mechanical with a gear shaped like that).

I would lean toward "rays of enlightenment" from the Christian Jesuit's iconography.

[vajo]

Combs

[Spartancrest]

Most of these images have some sort of description - either Christian or clock-gears. No definitive consensus.

Each image found at these sites: 

 

https://www.samurai-katana-shop.nl/en/japanse-katana-tsuba/kikka-gata-katana-tsuba

https://www.aoijapan.com/tsubamumeiunsignednbthk-hozon-paper/

http://nihontocraft.com/IHS_Tokei_Tsuba.htm

https://www.ebay.com/itm/144850835597

https://varshavskycollection.com/collection/tsu-0284/

[Spartancrest]

Also a thread here from 2013

 

[Bugyotsuji]

10 years ago!!!!! 

[Spartancrest]

Yes we were all a lot younger then and our memories were better! 

 

Richard K. George - facebook - https://www.facebook.com/266005023454853/posts/this-round-iron-tsuba-measures-757mmh-x-752mmw-x-622mmt-max-at-mimi-the-theme-is/3391206787601312/

 

https://www.tsubaotaku.com/tsuba-gallery-9?lightbox=dataItem-k56uc6rl

[Deez77]

Very cool input and leads from everyone. Thank you all.

 

After checking those and the other responses, comb(s), cross section of melon, representation of solar eclipse seen in Japan in 1500's, gear, and Jesuit symbol are all mentioned...as is "crossover" piece, although I'm not entirely sure what that means tbh.

 

The Jesuit symbol was apparently a 32-point one, which some of the examples linked above had. I just counted mine and interestingly enough, 4/5 sections have 19 "spokes" while the one at the 7-8 o'clock position has 18. Strange! 🤔 I wonder what the significance of that is.

 

Damon

[DirkO]

Mr Fred Geyer did a whole write up on this specific design in the 2nd KTK book. Well worth the read!

[ROKUJURO]

After reading the above, I think my TSUBA might be a TOKEI one with cross-over elements? Looking at the MIMI, I am thinking of OWARI.

[rkg]

 

 

I'm sure I've posted this here somewhere before, but here's a few Christan symbols from Japan, a modern Jesuit symbol, etc.

 

I see my other tokei has already had a link to it posted.

 

Best,

rkg

(Richard George)

 

 

[vajo]

I don't think at all that every tsuba with a cogwheel design is a christian symbol.