My Ashu Ujiyoshi Saku

[Cuirassier]

Hi All

I was not sure where to post this or to start. I am a collector who prefers (sorry) Napoleonic swords, but now have a few Japanese items thanks to some kind recommending Kiwi who got me into this a little. I have bought a number of books but still have problems with Mei and blade era / province recognition. I should mention also (having read the forum guides) I offer to sell everything I own (it is the only way I can keep collecting - I have around 150 swords); I am not a high volume seller / dealer and only do it as I said so I can continue to collect, to experience and hold different swords.

 

I recently bought a katana, a shin gunto with a bo-hi blade signed Ashu Ujiyoshi Saku. I have found a couple of web pages; http://www.touken.or.jp/english/nihon_koto_shi/(51)%20No.608.htm another my Kiwi friend found http://www.sho-shin.com/nan2.htm. I wanted to know though is this the same Ashu Ujiyoshi Saku?

 

OK, also, I wondered what the value likely was and could be. This is both for commercial reasons but also because this might be a "keeper" for me (some swords I own I am not very likely / willing to sell). I wanted to know whether I got a good deal (it cost me 1000 GBP all told) and whether I should a) invest in a polish and / or b) have the blade remounted (my instinct is to leave it in military mounts). I have another Katana undergoing polish at this time with Tony Norman in the UK if anyone knows of him. He is taking about 6 months right now. So I wonder if I should do the same with my bo-hi Ujiyoshi, whether the effect and value are worth it.

 

I hope I will upload an image of the katana but wonder if the file size may be too big.

 

Any help / advice appreciated.

[pcfarrar]

For £1k you got a pretty good deal assuming it has no major problems. Looks like it would be well worth a polish with Tony.

 

I used to own an Ashu Ujiyoshi wakizashi that had an identical hamon to yours.

[Cuirassier]

Hi Peter

Thank you, phew! I hate spending 3 figures on things I know too little about. Waterloo era British or French swords, I know and have no hesitation in plunging in, but I have had only even luck thus far with Japanese swords.

 

The blade is in very good order, though it clearly has been cleaned with an abrasive pad or something, I do not think wire. There are no forging flaws I can see which I found about to my cost regarding another earlier purchase.

 

I am not a good photographer and need to work out how to take pictures in the light Japanese swords are mostly done in; they must use some form of light diffuser. Anyway, I have taken a couple of pics which I think are fairly representative of the blade condition overall.

[pcfarrar]

I think there are 15+ smiths using Ashu Ujiyoshi from the Koto period to late edo. It will be quite tricky figuring out which one yours is. Post a close up image of the signature for us.

 

Some photography tips on this page:

 

http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/hamon.html

[Jacques D.]

Hi,

 

The kissaki seems have been broken and repaired, i hope the boshi does not get out.

[Cuirassier]

Hi again Peter

OK tang signature attached; hopefully it is OK / good enough.

 

Hi Jacques

I have had a really good look at the blade tip after your comment and can see nothing like a break / repair. There are a few chips along the cutting edge, do you mean these? If not, can your circle the area on my earlier photo you think this might show this so I can look through a magnifying glass?

[nagamaki - Franco]

Hi Jacques

I have had a really good look at the blade tip after your comment and can see nothing like a break / repair.

 

Greetings,

 

What Jacques is hinting at is that it appears the tip may have been broken off previously and was since reshaped to its present form, and it does appear that way. When looking at nihonto, especially "old" nihonto, which almost surely have undergone reshaping and repair of one sort or another over time, the collector should attempt to picture what the sword may have looked like originally. In that way it can be determined more accurately what the present state of the sword is. Since it is critical that the boshi remains and doesn't run off ( a fatal flaw), this will need to be evaluated (on this or any sword where the boshi cannot be easily seen). Another consideration is due to the presence of the bohi near the tip which appears to have already been reshaped, it will be critical that the next polisher has excellent foundation skills to make the proper adjustments if a new polish is the course to be taken (otherwise it won't look correct).

[Cuirassier]

Thanks for the information. The tip looks natural to me (cutting edge corresponding with the ko-shinogi; maybe it was the angle I took the last picture from (to avoid the flash reflecting back). Here are some more together with a better picture of the hamon / blade condition.

[Cuirassier]

Franco

Sorry, I just realized I posted a reply to you as a new thread

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5620

[Ted Tenold]

Cuirrasier,

 

I merged the two topics so the conversation can continue without interruption. Please remember to sign your posts with your real name.

[Cuirassier]

Hi Ted

Thanks and sorry, I sort of thought it was added automatically

Regards

Mark

[nagamaki - Franco]

The tip looks natural to me (cutting edge corresponding with the ko-shinogi; maybe it was the angle I took the last picture from (to avoid the flash reflecting back).

 

Hello,

 

Currently the proportions of length to width of the kissaki appear to be a bit off with the bo-hi encroaching slightly, which is what leads to believing that this tip was almost certainly a few millimeters longer originally (slightly elongated chu would be a reasonable assumption here). Normally a polisher would be able to maintain the original proportions of the kissaki involving a broken tip (providing there was enough boshi), simply by moving things back and reorganizing the foundation lines, but here there is a bo-hi involved which limits how much can be done. Still, it never ceases to amaze what a polisher with excellent polishing and foundations skills can accomplish even with limited material to work with.

[Cuirassier]

Hi Franco

OK, thanks, so hopefully it can still be a fine blade?

 

Peter

Polisher Tony is up to this level right?

 

Peter / anyone

Speculation or otherwise, any ideas on which Ujiyoshi this was made by and when? A bo-hi is a rare thing right? Am I right, early 15th Century? The blade is free from fukure and ware from what I can see, so I presume whoever it was was at least a medium grade smith yes?

 

Any and all help appreciated

Regards

Mark

[nagamaki - Franco]

so hopefully it can still be a fine blade?

 

Hi Mark,

 

The short objective answer is if the sword comes out of polish fine (without hindering flaws), and the mei is correct for the sword, then the sword 'should' pass shinsa, meaning, yes, it can still be a fine blade as defined by shinsa. see > http://www.nihontocraft.com/Nihonto_Shi ... dards.html

 

But, then of course there is what fine is according to each collector, but let's not go there

[Cuirassier]

Hi Franco

Thank you.

No-one seems to want or be able to answer the question regarding value though. Now I know that this depends on it not being a copy (at some stage or another) and the tip being OK, but let us assume everything is good. The problem for me is whether getting it polished and maybe even certified is worth the money and wait. I already have one katana with a polisher who is meant to be very good; I am 3 months into a 6 month polishing time with him, cost around 600 GBP, maybe a bit less. Plus then the issue of mounts becomes more important as to whether I leave such a blade in military mounts or not; I suspect not is the ultimate commercially based answer?

 

If as I suspect the blade is going to look superb, I would plan to hold onto it for a while to perhaps appreciate it and come more into the fold of devotees. At the moment I get a huge buzz from holding a French or British sword I know to have been at Waterloo but not so much from a Japanese sword.

 

I collect but buy and sell swords in order to collect. So for me I have 2 interests in any sword; how much I like and want to hold onto it, and how much I can get for it in order to be able to buy and hold / experience even more swords.

 

So I am looking for some guidance with approximate values if anyone can, or if it is allowed. Clearly I could not be interested in making a quick profit on this sword as it may take a year all told right? But will my bank manager be happy after those 12 months I made a wise investment and now have a superb asset, and more importantly perhaps will I hold this sword and go "Wow, thank God I did that"?

 

Mark

[Brian]

Mark,

Basically, a polish is very seldom done to increase value. You simply can't usually add the price to the end result and make extra profit.

A polish is usually done as a labour of love, to see more, study more, and appreciate more. However I wouldn't have it done if you intend to sell the sword. Leave that to a future owner.

 

Brian