Ninja Kantei

[Rivkin]

Few know that among the many practices of illegal kantei there is but one deemed so evil the practicioner's souls have no hope of attaining Nirvana and cursed forever to walk the earth as ninja spirits.

Even the most exalted order of volunteer knights of NBTHK are powerless before the sinister inclination of those partaken in the ritual.

It is said to have been founded by a blind kantei expert whose family ko-Aoe was "bungoed" by the NBTHK. Filled with anger he offered his soul to the vengeful spirits of Kurama mountain, granting him i exchange illegal ninja kantei powers.

 

The rules are deceivingly simple... Instead of kantei-ing one blade you kantei by photo THREE papered to the same school. Branches are considered as the same school.

Today is the day to find out:

Are you ninjas or pussies?

The answer should include the school name and dates of the three blades.

Let's fighting love.

 

[Rivkin]

Blade #1. Signature obscured by ninja spell.

[Rivkin]

Blade #2. Its darkness so great there are multiple belts of utsuri one is much brighter than others some consider it nie utsuri. Ko choji in the hamon here and there. When kantei-ing this blade alone I got it wrong.

[Rivkin]

Blade #3. When you see it you think "how on earth are these the same school". Well, its a branch office.

[DoTanuki yokai]

Oei Bizen Morimitsu.

 

 

[Rivkin]

9 hours ago, DoTanuki yokai said:

Oei Bizen Morimitsu.

 

 

Its not Bizen.

One more clue: the subject is evolution of a single school over relatively long period of time, each of the given blades is more or less typical for its specific period. The difficulty is that few books manage to track such developments in full.

[DoTanuki yokai]

I'm retreating to the mountains to continue my ninja training 

[Jacques D.]

It's simply impossible to detect, you can't see anything on the pictures. How many times do I have to say it?

[DMNK]

@DoTanuki yokai

[Rivkin]

One image got overcompressed so I will put the original here:

http://www.historyswords.com/e22.jpg

[NewB]

22 hours ago, Rivkin said:

One image got overcompressed so I will put the original here:

http://www.historyswords.com/e22.jpg

 

I shouldn't be even talking but.. jorin Uzumaki hada? Shitahara?

 

EDIT. not even close 🥷

 

 

J.

[Mark S.]

5 hours ago, Jacques D. said:

It's simply impossible to detect, you can't see anything on the pictures. How many times do I have to say it?

ALBATROSS!!!

[rematron]

6 hours ago, Jacques D. said:

It's simply impossible to detect, you can't see anything on the pictures. How many times do I have to say it?

Infinity times.

[Jacques D.]

Mark  

 

An argument to develop? For example, tell me how the nioiguchi is ? Nioi or nie deki, thick or thin ? bright or not? Size of the nie (if there is any) ?

[Rivkin]

There are two ways I personally would approach it.

First is to consider which school changed between the styles exemplified by blade #1 and #2. There are like three I can think of right away and then it is straightforward to narrow it down to one.

Second option is to kantei the blade #3. Its a very good example of the type and it does show kantei feature which is school specific and allows to distinguish it from two-three similar ones from about the same period. There is another kantei feature there which however cannot be displayed by photo.. but even without it there are not too many options. Well easy for me to say knowing the answer but its a typical one... on a "good side" of the name's distribution.

[DoTanuki yokai]

 I’m back to try Naminohira/Satsuma from Oei to the late Muromachi. 
Nobody else ? 

[Rivkin]

After contemplating life for a week in a desert...

I find the lack of ninja commitment disturbing.

There is a hint.

Its Muromachi branch is the only period school which has a kantei point which cannot be seen.

[NewB]

On 1/10/2023 at 4:56 PM, Rivkin said:

Blade #2. Its darkness so great there are multiple belts of utsuri one is much brighter than others some consider it nie utsuri. Ko choji in the hamon here and there. When kantei-ing this blade alone I got it wrong.

 

Last attempt before reverting to meditation 

 

kai mihara?

 

J.

[Rivkin]

3 minutes ago, NewB said:

 

Last attempt before reverting to meditation 

 

kai mihara?

 

J.

 

That's actually close, but no, mihara changes were far more subtle.

[David Flynn]

Rai.

[Rivkin]

26 minutes ago, David Flynn said:

Rai.

 

Very reasonable but negative. Rai does not have unseen kantei points.

[Mark S.]

The second blade (Utsuri) makes me think Aoe school… but you wouldn’t give answer away in your opening description of the “blind  kantei expert”. I’m still trying to decipher what you really mean by “unseen kantei point”. 

[Rivkin]

On 1/26/2023 at 2:01 AM, Mark S. said:

The second blade (Utsuri) makes me think Aoe school… but you wouldn’t give answer away in your opening description of the “blind  kantei expert”. I’m still trying to decipher what you really mean by “unseen kantei point”. 

 

The branch has two kantei points - one is hamon's shape, another one is unseen... they are deemed more than sufficient to be certain in attribution and it does appear in formal kantei competitions and not as a "trick" blade.

[Rivkin]

I should probably go for the reveal.

Lets start with blade #3.

Sugata is unusual with wide mihaba, extensive curvature, a little taper. Too deep curvature for Nambokucho, so its roughly either Muromachi or Shinshinto. Shinshinto idea can be shelved for now, if only because there is usually no such thing as direct school continuation into this period. 

Long kaeri continuing into muneyaki - its not Hasebe but someone Soshu inspired.

Hamon is in nie with nioi base - western Soshu like Sa or Naotsuna, but the period is wrong, the work is way too wide. Also the structure of the hamon is weird - the patches of nie are well controlled but appear almost at random and without disturbing the suguha profile a bit too much, there is belted nie a-la Uda-Norishige but it appears is certain segments rather than dominating the structure.

Its suguha with random ko midare.

If it was Mino/Seki we would see more periodic gunome.

If it was Odawara we would see more togari or at the very least Sadamune-like notare. 

Fuyuhiro would be random large togari or almost pure suguha.

The hada is not a key kantei factor for most Muromachi works but also noting its fine itame with chikei, unusual.

 

So wide suguha with random ko midare in nie + Muromachi period has only one school - Dotanuki.

The verification for this school - katana are extremely heavy. Mihaba is wide, but also the thickness profile is just a bit more than you would normally expect. There is about 30% difference in weight against a typical same size blade of the period, and it is felt in hand.

 

Going back to other blades, blade #2 is very tight itame with nie utsuri. if stated it is not Rai than its Enju, though admittedly it lacks typical Enju hada with masame and hotsure at least somewhere and a boshi is a bit off for the school - but such was the judgement. Its Kamakura period, unusual shape in a sense it retains curvature even despite being cut down severely. Possibly it was originally a kodachi.

Enju was one of the schools which turned hard at Muromachi from Rai to Yamato. Blade #1 is an example of that - periodic gunome, coarse o hada, large nie which is clearly seen towards the tip. Though Muromachi Enju are extremely rare but nevertheless such appearance is "typical".

Another example of similar sharp turn in style is Aoe.

[DoTanuki yokai]

I was thinking about the #3 is a Dotanuki but I wasn’t able to see Enju in the others. 
For example the Boshi of blade #2 is not maru but the Hada and hamon could fit while blade #1 Hada does not look Enju at all to me 

[reinhard]

BTW,

 

Kirill was so kind to give you an unmistakeable hint in the header.

Opening the pic to sword #3 in a separate tab you could clearly see:

dotanu....   not many ways to interprete; don't you think?

 

reinhard