Swords of the 47 Ronin

[Utopianarian]

I am sure this info has been posted before but definitely interesting for those that may have interest of the Ronin blades documented:
  THE 47 RONIN AND THEIR SWORDS

Note: the numbers in parenthesis after the sword smith's name refer to the Kanji tables on this site. Thus Norinaga (1,2) refers to the first Kanji for Nori and the second Kanji for Naga. The information is given in the sequence: name of ronin; age; katana mei and length; wakizashi mei and length; other weapons carried. Only 33 warriors are documented.

 

OISHI KURANOSUKE YOSHIKATSU, age 45
katana mei: Norinaga (1,2), length 2 shaku 8 sun
wakizashi mei: Norinaga (1,2), length 2 shaku
te yari

YOSHIDA CHUZAEMON KANESUKE, age 64
katana attribution: Shimada (1,x), length 2 shaku 2 sun
wakizashi mei: Hiromitsu (3,1), length 1 shaku 1 sun
naga yari (long yari)

HARA SOEMON MOTOTOKI, age 56
katana mei: Hirohuni (3,1), length 2 shaku 9 sun
wakizashi mei: Kunisuke (1,2), length 2 shaku
te yari

KATAOKA GENGOEMON TAKAFUSA, age 37
katana mei: Kunimitsu (2,1), length 2 shaku 7 sun
wakizashi mei: Kunishige (1,2), length unknown
te yari

MASE KYUDAIU MASAAKI, age 63
katana mei: Michitaka (1,2), length 2 shaku 1 sun
wakizashi mei: Yoshitsuna (1,2), length 2 shaku
bow and arrow

ONODERA JYUNAI HIDEKAZU, age 61
katana mei: Michinaga (1,2), length 2 shaku 9 sun
wakizashi mei: Kunisuke (2,2), length 1 shaku 9 sun
te yari

HAZAMA KIHEI MITSUNOBU, age 65
katana mei: mumei (unsigned), lenght 2 shaku 9 sun
wakizashi mei: Teruhiro (2,2), length 2 shaku 1 sun

ISOGAI JYUROZEMON MASAHISA, age 25
katana mei: Mitsumori (1,1), length 2 shaku 9 sun
wakizashi mei: Kunimune (2,1), length 2 shaku
te yari

HORIBEI YAHYOE AKIZANE, age 77
katana mei: mumei, length 3 shaku
wakizashi: none
naginata

CHIKAMATSU KANROKU YUKISHIGE, age 34
katana mei: Mitsuyoshi (2,2), length 2 shaku
wakizashi mei: unknown, length unknown
long yari

TOMIMORI SUKEEMON MASAYORI, age 34
katana mei: Tomokuni (2,1), length 2 shaku 8 sun
wakizashi mei: Mitsushige (1,2), length unknown
long yari

SHIOTA MATANOJYO TAKANORI, age 35
katana mei: Kunihisa (1,1), length 2 shaku 4 sun
wakizashi mei: Kunihisa (1,1), length 1 shaku 6 sun

HAYAMI TOZAEMON MITSUTAKA, age 42
katana mei: Hiromitsu (3,1), length 2 shaku 7 sun
wakizashi mei: unknown, length unknown
bow and arrow

AKABANE GENZO SHIGEKATA, age 35
katana mei: mumei, length unknown
wakizashi mei: unknown, length unknown

OKUDA MAGODAIU SHIGEMORI, age 57
katana mei: Kunitaka (1,2), length 2 shaku 4 sun
wakizashi mei: unknown, length 1 shaku 6 sun

YADA GOROEMON SUKETAKA, age 29
katana mei: Kunisuke (1,2), length 2 shaku
wakizashi mei: mumei, length 1 shaku 6 sun

OISHI SEZAEMON NOBUKIYO, age 29
katana mei: mumei, length 2 shaku 9 sun
wakizashi mei: mumei, length 1 shaku 9 sun
long yari

OISHI SHIKARA YOSHIKANE, age 16
katana mei: Tomokuni (2,1), length 2 shaku 2 sun plus
wakizashi mei: Hiroshige (3,2), length 1 shaku 1 sun
short yari

HORIBE YASUBEI TAKETSUNE, age 34
katana mei: Kanekuni (2,1), lenght 2 shaku 8 sun
wakizashi mei: mumei, length unknown

NAKAMURA KANSUKE MASATOKI, age ?
katana mei: Nagakuni (1,1), length 2 shaku 4 sun
wakizashi mei: mumei, length unknown
long yari 

SUGANOYA HANNOJYO MASATOSHI, age 44
katana mei: Michinaga (1,2), length 2 shaku 8 sun
wakizashi mei: mumei, length unknown

FUWA KAZUEMON MASATANE, age 34
katana mei: Norimitsu (1,1), length unknown
wakizashi mei: Norimitsu (1,1), length unknown

KIMURA OKAUEMON SADAYUKI, age 46
katana mei: Norimitsu (1,1), length 2 shaku 6 sun
wakizashi mei: mumei, length 2 shaku 1 sun

OHIBA SABUROBYOE MITSUTADA, age 51
katana mei: Yasutaka (1,2), length 2 shaku 4 sun
wakizashi mei: Yasutaka (1,2), length 2 shaku
bow and arrow

OKANO KINUEMON KANEHIDE, age 24
katana mei: Tomohisa (2,1), length 2 shaku 4 sun
wakizashi mei: Michinaga (1,2), length unknown
jyumonji yari

KAIGA YAZAEMON TOMONOBU, age 54
katana mei: mumei, length unknown
wakizashi mei: mumei, length unknown

OTAKA GENGO TADAO, age 32
katana mei: Tomohisa (2,1), length 2 shaku 6 sun
wakizashi mei: Masakuni (5,1), length 9 sun 5 bu

OKAJIMA YASOUEMON TSUNEKI, age 38
katana mei: Tomokuni (2,2), length 2 shaku 8 sun
wakizashi mei: Tomokuni (2,2), length 1 shaku 4 sun

YOSHIDA SAWAUEMON KANESADA, age 29
katana attribution: Mizuta, length 2 shaku 9 sun
wakizashi attribution: Mizuta, length 1 shaku 8 sun
long yari

TAKEBAYASHI TADAHICHI TAKASHIGE, age 32
katana mei: Hirokuni (1,1), length 2 shaku
wakizashi attribution: Mizuta, length 1 shaku 6 sun
long yari

KURAHASHI DENSUKE TAKEYUKI, age 34
katana mei: Hirokuni (1,2), length 2 shaku 8 sun
wakizashi mei: mumei. length 2 shaku

HAZAMA SHINROKURO MITSUKAZE, age 24
katana mei: Kunisuke (2,2), length 2 shaku 2 sun
wakizashi mei: Kunisuke (2,2), length unknown
te yari

MURAMATSU KIHEI HIDENAO, agae 62
katana mei: Kuninaga (1,1), length 2 shaku 8 sun
wakizashi mei: Samuhiro (?,1), length 2 shaku 4 sun
long yari

[Okan]

Although posted many times, I was thinking of posting this again  Thank you George! 

[Utopianarian]

It’s amazing the range in ages of Ronin age 16 thru age 77! 

[Dave R]

  On 1/10/2023 at 1:31 PM, Utopianarian said:

It’s amazing the range in ages of Ronin age 16 thru age 77! 

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 They were a complete household of armed retainers, so ranged from aged veterans to young punk apprentices. 

[Bugyotsuji]

Some of those weapons are on display in the little exhibition rooms at Oishi Jinja in Ako Castle.

 

[Alex A]

Anytime i see that list it always reminds of that phrase "its not a true daisho"

 

Looks like some Samurai cared little also.

[Okan]

  On 1/10/2023 at 1:48 PM, Alex A said:

Anytime i see that list it always reminds of that phrase "its not a true daisho"

 

Looks like some Samurai cared little also.

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I'm sure they had more important stuff to care about  Also low-mid ranking samurai couldn't afford it. 

[Alex A]

I dunno about not being able to afford it, more likely not a match as passed down.

[Okan]

  On 1/10/2023 at 2:22 PM, Alex A said:

I dunno about not being able to afford it, more likely not a match as passed down.

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A great article by Markus.

 

https://nihonto.com/samurai-income/

 

 

[Matsunoki]

The phrase “true daisho” has always niggled me. I assume by true  daisho we mean matching blades by the same smith. Do we also mean blades in the same style and/or forged at the same time?

I’ve never seen an actual accepted definition of “true daisho” and no definition of daisho that I’ve seen even mentions same smith etc.

I always thought a daisho was simply a long sword and a short sword in matching koshirae, either katana/wakizashi or Tachi/Tanto

Has anyone ever seen a “true daisho” excluding gendai and Shinsakuto? 

Anyone actually own one?

[Okan]

  On 1/10/2023 at 2:33 PM, Matsunoki said:

The phrase “true daisho” has always niggled me. I assume by true  daisho we mean matching blades by the same smith. Do we also mean blades in the same style and/or forged at the same time?

I’ve never seen an actual accepted definition of “true daisho” and no definition of daisho that I’ve seen even mentions same smith etc.

I always thought a daisho was simply a long sword and a short sword in matching koshirae, either katana/wakizashi or Tachi/Tanto

Has anyone ever seen a “true daisho” excluding gendai and Shinsakuto? 

Anyone actually own one?

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From western collectors point of view.."True Daisho" is known as matching smiths, matching koshirae & fittings..For me, matching koshiae & fittings ordered for 2 random blades from different smiths would do

 

 

 

 

[Matsunoki]

  On 1/10/2023 at 2:41 PM, Okan said:

For me, matching koshiae & fittings ordered for 2 random blades from different smiths would do

 

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I agree completely.  We could spend a lifetime looking for an available true daisho from samurai times.  I suspect most “daisho” worn by most samurai didn’t even have matching koshirae….simply a long sword and a random short sword that looked close enough! They didn’t have the money for anything else. 

[Franco]

 

  Quote

 

The phrase “true daisho” has always niggled me. I assume by true  daisho we mean matching blades by the same smith. Do we also mean blades in the same style and/or forged at the same time?

 

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  Quote

 

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Posted January 6, 2020

To clarify on these things put on one paper as a daisho, if that was attempted with the NBTHK they would not paper them as such.

In order to paper as a daisho, they need to be made by the same smith, on the same day, and intended as a pair for each other.

By definition two koto swords cannot be papered as daisho since that idea of one smith making two blades as a set does not appear to have occurred to anyone until after the Momoyama period, after daisho became popular at the end of the Muromachi period.

 

With Shinto blades on a monthly basis people are trying to get their "daisho" that they assembled of two swords made by the same maker, sometimes even with the same date, passed as daisho token. These inevitably fail because they were not purpose made sets. 

Bearing in mind that two swords as long as they are made within six months of each other will have the same date on their nakago, because smiths had a habit of only dating February and August as dates on blades. So when a blade says February it is probably within +/- 3 months of Feb. It isn't clear to me if the date used though is the last date (i.e. is the left fencepost, so the Feb date covers Feb-August and the August date covers August-Feb) or if is the center post of the span (Sep-March then for Feb date). Probably a modern swordsmith would know. 

Anyway point being is that people constantly try to game this and you can see afterwards when they sell their "daisho" that the dates of the papers and serial numbers are consecutive on the two swords in the daisho, they probably submitted together for one paper the the NBTHK issued two because the swords are not a daisho (i.e. purpose made as a pair).

They are still a daisho (i.e. long and short swords mounted together for use) when in the koshirae. But you just need to understand the different contexts (any two swords you put in matched koshirae become a daisho for the purpose of wearing, but two swords are daisho token sans koshirae only when intended as a pair and this is where the high degree of rarity comes in). 

Since any collector can put together a self-made daisho there is no combination value bump when you do so. If they were mismatched swords together historically and the daisho koshirae exists from when this happened in the Edo period, now you have a valuation bump. And if the swords were made together as a set intended for each other, you also have a valuation bump. If that set of swords retains its original koshirae you have another valuation bump. 

In this case the swords are probably united now by a collector or dealer and so are just two swords.

 

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[Alex A]

  On 1/10/2023 at 2:29 PM, Okan said:

 

A great article by Markus.

 

https://nihonto.com/samurai-income/

 

 

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Hi Okan.

 

My comment was just a general comment. What i meant is we cant just ignore the fact that there are so many old swords still around and that they were handed down, worn, handed down again.

 

Hence another reason why you see oddball "Daisho" listed, as above.

 

To order a matching daisho, yes, expensive for a lower Samurai with the likes of the smiths mentioned. Remember reading of Samurai having to sell their swords in another article. I guess there were places that catered for those on a budget, as always. Perhaps swords that did not turn out as planned could be bought cheap etc etc etc.

 

Its the kind of history we never get to read about, seldomly anyways 

[Jussi Ekholm]

I remember trying to figure some of the smiths out few years ago. Unfortunately it is lot of guesswork and most likely wrong in multiple cases. Would be nice to see the original Japanese source for bit better information.

 

 

[lonely panet]

  On 1/10/2023 at 8:23 PM, Jussi Ekholm said:

I remember trying to figure some of the smiths out few years ago. Unfortunately it is lot of guesswork and most likely wrong in multiple cases. Would be nice to see the original Japanese source for bit better information.

 

 

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will this help Jussi??,  sorry i had correct the orientation before uplaoding but it when back to its orginal 

[rematron]

helping  

Edited January 10, 2023 by rematron
add photo

[Tensho]

  On 1/10/2023 at 1:43 PM, Bugyotsuji said:

Some of those weapons are on display in the little exhibition rooms at Oishi Jinja in Ako Castle.

 

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I have seen this posted several times on here. I was wondering what happened to them. All I have ever seen is the old B&W photos. Would be nice to see them in Higher resolution pictures. 

[Bugyotsuji]

  On 1/10/2023 at 10:53 PM, Tensho said:

I have seen this posted several times on here. I was wondering what happened to them. All I have ever seen is the old B&W photos. Would be nice to see them in Higher resolution pictures. 

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Hi Matt, you would be disappointed probably. Nothing like those black and white photos is out on display.

 

There are only a couple of swords, one of which looks to have been polished recently, two or three spears, some guns and a small cannon, (bloody) articles of clothing, several suits of armo(u)r and various other bits and bobs like lanterns, whistles, etc., handed down in the various families. The walls are covered in old maps and pictures. Many artefacts are from the 森Mori family history, like Mori Nagayoshi; they moved in after the Asano left. All interesting in their own right, but there seems to be no temperature or humidity control in those storehouse-like buidlings.  I have taken photos there, particularly of armour for the Japanese Armor Society, but I would need to trawl back to find some. Alernatively I can go back there and focus exclusively on the remaining blades.

 

Spears of Shiota and Chikamatsu.
 

 

 

 

[lonely panet]

i would say that alot of the swords on the postcards would have been distroyed to stolen during the war