Grand uncles Naval Gunto

[brainlet]

I recently received a sword from my father who received it form my Grand uncle before he died. It is a Kai Gunto. It isn't stainless steel because it rusts, and I have a signature. However I don't exactly know what kind of steel it is made out of. Would it be possible to find out what kind of steel it uses

 

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[Brian]

Seki stamped Showato. So a regular arsenal made sword during WW2. Made from the typical steel used at that time, crafted and then oil quenched.

[Beater]

In case you are unaware, your sword is signed: “Noshu ju Tsukahara Kanetsugu kin saku”. (Respectfully made by Tsukahara Kanetsugu, living in Noshu province.)

Another similar oshigata can be found on page 95 of “Swordsmiths of Japan 1926-1945”, by R. Fuller & R. Gregory.

[vajo]

[Bruce Pennington]

We'd enjoy seeing shots of the whole sword and fittings Karl, if you'd honor us with some photos!  A couple of close, clear shots of the temper line (hamon) would help also.  

 

The blades with the large Seki stamp, like yours, are probably not made in the traditional manner.  There have been some rare exceptions, but the vast majority of them seem to be well made, non-traditional blades.  So, if a smith was cranking out large numbers of blades for the war effort, using non-traditional methods, it's unlikely (not impossible) that he was using tamahagane.  But we're talking odds and chances here, since it's not possible to know conclusively.  

 

There are some guys at NMB that are really into metallurgy and steels that may be able to comment, but if the smith didn't specifically say on the mei (signature line), then we don't really know what steel was used.  

[vajo]

Smith's real name was 塚原 次郎 (Tsukahara Jirou)

濃 州 住 塚 原 兼 次 謹 作 

Noshu ju Tsukahara Kanetsugu kin saku 
Noshu is another name for the old Mino Province.

He was also listed as RJT Swordsmith (Nihonto Meikan, Tosho Zenshu)

He got the 4th seat/ Gifu (Slough)

 

Province Gifu was created from the provinces Hida (northern part) and Mino (southern part).

 

 

 

[John C]

Karl:

FYI The yellow painted numbers (2477 I think) are assembly numbers. Do the other parts have this number stamped on them?

 

John C.

[Beater]

Hi Chris,

 

Do you think it is odd that the tang you show above (link below) and Karl’s blade are both mounted in kaigunto, when it is said he was RJT - army certified swordsmith? Or is it common to bat for both teams? Not my interest, so just asking.

 

I noted that when you expand the write-up IMA provide (press the ‘read more’ link) regarding this sword, it is a load of waffle about another smith, so just wondering how reliable his info is?

 

https://www.ima-usa.com/products/original-wwii-Japanese-navy-officer-p1937-kai-gunto-handmade-katana-by-tsukahara-kanetsugu-with-scabbard?variant=40001105592389

 

Regards,

 

Kevin.

[brainlet]

4 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

We'd enjoy seeing shots of the whole sword and fittings Karl, if you'd honor us with some photos!  A couple of close, clear shots of the temper line (hamon) would help also.  

 

The blades with the large Seki stamp, like yours, are probably not made in the traditional manner.  There have been some rare exceptions, but the vast majority of them seem to be well made, non-traditional blades.  So, if a smith was cranking out large numbers of blades for the war effort, using non-traditional methods, it's unlikely (not impossible) that he was using tamahagane.  But we're talking odds and chances here, since it's not possible to know conclusively.  

 

There are some guys at NMB that are really into metallurgy and steels that may be able to comment, but if the smith didn't specifically say on the mei (signature line), then we don't really know what steel was used.  

I can try but im pretty new at this, ill post it in about an hour or so when Im free

[vajo]

Hi Kevin i think it doesn't matter where the blade was made. They made both army and navy.

Some years ago i had a Gifu Naotane (Ishiare Kan 'ichi') Kai Gunto with Seki stamp.

 

You find the swordsmith from Karl's Kai Gunto in the Slough Oshigata Book on side 228.

Also named in the Gregory & Fuller Showa Swordsmiths under the point 34. Kanetsugu Gifu Army Blade Dept.

 

[mecox]

Karl & others.  As noted he is :   “Kanetsugu” (兼次), real name Tsukahara Tarō (塚原太郎), born January 25th 1919 (Taisho 8), he worked as rikugun-jumei-tōshō and died on July 30th 1978,  age 59.  He was registered as a Seki swordsmith early on, Showa 14 (1939) October 20. 

He was ranked  Jōkō no Retsu (5 of 7, out of 400 smiths, in 1942 by Akihide), Fourth Seat (of 5) at the 6th Shinsaku Nihontō Denrankai (新作日本刀展覧会, in 1941).   He was also awarded Nyusen-sho (accepted)  in the December, 1944 Rikugun Jumei Tosho exhibition run by the Army (211 prizes given).  

[Kiipu]

3 hours ago, John C said:

The yellow painted numbers (2477 I think) are assembly numbers.

 

I think this is 七四七七 as the initial character has an upward swing in the upper left corner.  Compare it to the bottom character.  What do you think?

七四七七 = 7477.

[John C]

16 minutes ago, Kiipu said:

I think this is 七四七七

You are most likely correct. It's hard for me to tell sometimes.

John C.

[Kiipu]

Sometimes you are not alone.  I initially thought it was a 〇 (zero)!

[Beater]

Thanks for your reply Chris. Yes, I saw him listed in Slough’s, page 221 and noted the name in F&G’s earlier booklet ‘A guide to Showa Swordsmiths’, at #34. There is of course, no oshigata with that one, so I wasn’t prepared to make the connection.

Thanks also Mal, as ever, for your clarification.

 

Kind regards,

Kevin.

[brainlet]

7 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

We'd enjoy seeing shots of the whole sword and fittings Karl, if you'd honor us with some photos!  A couple of close, clear shots of the temper line (hamon) would help also.  

 

The blades with the large Seki stamp, like yours, are probably not made in the traditional manner.  There have been some rare exceptions, but the vast majority of them seem to be well made, non-traditional blades.  So, if a smith was cranking out large numbers of blades for the war effort, using non-traditional methods, it's unlikely (not impossible) that he was using tamahagane.  But we're talking odds and chances here, since it's not possible to know conclusively.  

 

There are some guys at NMB that are really into metallurgy and steels that may be able to comment, but if the smith didn't specifically say on the mei (signature line), then we don't really know what steel was used.  

[brainlet]

[brainlet]

[brainlet]

[brainlet]

sorry for the spamish posts, i have no clue how to properly take photos of a hamon line

[brainlet]

5 hours ago, John C said:

Karl:

FYI The yellow painted numbers (2477 I think) are assembly numbers. Do the other parts have this number stamped on them?

 

John C.

I have Different numbers 0 3 1 or 1 3 0  stamped on them

[brainlet]

Also on the leftside of the Handle it looks to be signed or something but it is scratched out 

[brainlet]

Also located on the Ashi of my sword is a yellow thread which was also previously on the Kabuto gane but fell off, does this mean anything. I know its not an official tassel or anything.

[John C]

The numbers not matching the blade assembly number is not a big deal. Koshirae were frequently changed due to damage or wear. The nice thing is the saya and fittings all match each other, which means they have been together for a while.

I would not be concerned by the yellow thread. I suspect most here would tell you to just remove it if it were not an original attachment.

John C.

[brainlet]

The threads were pretty old though, what do you think they couldve been

[Bruce Pennington]

Karl,

I have seen quite a few gunto with that gold cord.  I believe there is even an NMB thread on it.  There are some seen with a red cord.  Many believe it comes off the sword bag, but whether is was put there by the original owner or by a returning G.I., no one knows.  I've seen so many, I'm starting to wonder if it's been done by the owners and might have some meaning or significance.  But it's a big unknown for now.

 

Thanks for the extra photos!  Maybe one of the guys that study traditionally made blades can comment?  To me, it seems to be a nicely made showato, in other words, non-traditional.  You'll find most WWII gunto are showato, as they had to industrialize the swordmaking industry to meet a massive demand for swords.

 

As to Kevin's observation, I have seen a number of smiths with blades in both Type 98 and Type 97 fittings, along with even civil fittings.  They say the Seki area produced 70% of all WWII blades, so it is easy to see that they likely supplied swords to the full spectrum of buyers.

[robinalexander]

 I've seen so many, I'm starting to wonder if it's been done by the owners and might have some meaning or significance.  But it's a big unknown for now.

 

I agree @Bruce Pennington ....one of the links to yellow/red tassels below for info.

 

 

 

[Kiipu]

On 1/2/2023 at 4:20 PM, brainlet said:

Also located on the Ashi of my sword is a yellow thread which was also previously on the Kabuto gane but fell off, does this mean anything.

 

Could it be a part of the scabbard retention system used by the navy?

Launch documentation for the 1937 introduction of the new Navy Gunto, Post #34

[PNSSHOGUN]

No, that is a thin cord like so: