Tanuki menuki

[rematron]

On 12/31/2022 at 1:43 AM, Kurikata said:

I would consider these animals not being otters but more probably weasels know as being very fine predators. My weasels eating a bird.... herewith (purchased to an estimated membre on this site)

Hi Bruno, I purchased the menuki in question and am starting to research their origin.  Do you know any information about the period, province and/or artist that created yours?  They look similar in color and technique to mine. 

[Spartancrest]

 

This image of a 'fox', 'ferret' or 'weasel'? from 2012  https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/10475-wakizashi-by-masasada-opinions-appreciated/

looks like it was held in high esteem sitting on a pedestal.

 

[rematron]

2 hours ago, Spartancrest said:

 

This image of a 'fox', 'ferret' or 'weasel'? from 2012  https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/10475-wakizashi-by-masasada-opinions-appreciated/

looks like it was held in high esteem sitting on a pedestal.

 

It’s got the ball in its mouth so it’s a kitsune guarding an Inari shrine as per Piers’ observation. 

 

 

[Spartancrest]

 

Some images here of similar menuki and matching fittings from the Peabody collection.

Book cover., 1975

 

[rematron]

57 minutes ago, Spartancrest said:

 

Some images here of similar menuki and matching fittings from the Peabody collection.

 

book cover.

These are great! Very similar to the point  that the ones I purchased are copied or possibly the same artist. Probably copies/tributes. The fuchi design is almost the same but a bird instead of a smaller weasel as a prey. And the bottom menuki is similar as well. I am very impressed by the coloring of these ones.  Great attention to detail.  Thank you very much for posting these examples @Spartancrest  . Now I’ve got a name and a school I can search as well as a possible timeframe. I’m thinking mine were later tributes but more to research. 

[Spartancrest]

I just found this link to the archive of the "The Peabody Museum collection of Japanese sword guards"  - https://archive.org/details/peabodymuseumcol00peab_0/page/n51/mode/2up  The full book and images are there, Perhaps this link could find its way to the downloads section ?  Nice that a museum has made this available to the general public - Cheers to the  "Peabody Museum of Salem".

[ I could have saved my time photographing the book pages at home!   ]

[Kurikata]

On 1/8/2023 at 6:58 PM, rematron said:

Hi Bruno, I purchased the menuki in question and am starting to research their origin.  Do you know any information about the period, province and/or artist that created yours?  They look similar in color and technique to mine. 

Hi Jeremy, my menuki are mumei and I have no information on a school or any tsubako. Nevertheless I can't resist in sharing a tsuba of mine on the same topic!

[rematron]

Thank you for sharing @Kurikata !  That is indeed a wonderful tsuba!  All you need now is fuchi/kashira and you'll have a whole matching koshirae!

[Spartancrest]

You might have to strain your eyes a little but there is a weasel on the lower left near the gold goat.

 

 

[rematron]

2 minutes ago, Spartancrest said:

You might have to strain your eyes a little but there is a weasel on the lower left near the gold goat.

 

 

Wow! Good eye, Dan! Now THAT is expensive taste! Really beautiful tsuba though.

[Spartancrest]

Now this guy doesn't look very cute!  Freddy Krueger meets the Wolverine!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_weasel

Kamaitachi (the slashing sickle-weasel that haunts the mountains) from Kyōka Hyaku Monogatari

[what is he, an early model leaf-shredder? ]

 

[rematron]

I started reading all I could find about weasels in Japanese mythology once I realized that's what my recent menuki purchase were and this incarnation is one of my favorites.  I have a couple more images from the internet that I'll post later.

5 minutes ago, Spartancrest said:

Now this guy doesn't look very cute!  Freddy Krueger meets the Wolverine!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_weasel

Kamaitachi (the slashing sickle-weasel that haunts the mountains) from Kyōka Hyaku Monogatari

[what is he, an early model leaf-shredder? ]

 

 

[Spartancrest]

A kozuka on "flea spray" https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/275157078433  - the rare camel head weasel! 

 

[rematron]

18 minutes ago, Spartancrest said:

A kozuka on "flea spray" https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/275157078433  - the rare camel head weasel! 

 

So much like these again.  So kitsune again?  They just are not fox-like though. 

 

[rematron]

More kamaitachi:

 

[Spartancrest]

You might like to try using these kanji for a search -   イタチ 目貫   or  イタチ 鍔  - 

I would not rely on Google translate for the description on these menuki!  Very close theme to the Peabody examples.

 

 

https://tokka.biz/fittings/F068.html

 

This rather fat menuki [more like a tanuki to me ] https://aucview.aucfan.com/yahoo/s1071573559/

described as "Katamenuki for tanto Inlaid copper base metal Large weasel rat design"

 

 

[rematron]

Oh no! I'm gonna spend all my money! That kanji is really good to know though. That top one looks like a cat and I might have to bid on that. And yeah, the bottom one looks like a tanuki. Using kanji is definitely a good way to search. I will try that.

[Bugyotsuji]

3 hours ago, rematron said:

So much like these again.  So kitsune again?  They just are not fox-like though. 

 

Jeremy, notice the Hoju mark on their tails, indicating 狐 kitsune, fox, or more properly in the elevated language of the shrine, 稲荷 inari. Both words mean fox, the latter by association as the servant of the Inari shrine god. Also 狛狐 koma-gitsune, guardian fox.

[rematron]

@Bugyotsuji Thank you Piers! I was specifically going to ask you about those marks on the tail and I forgot. I have no doubt they are Inari kitsune as you showed a couple weeks ago by zeroing in on the jewel and the key, I’m only pointing out that the only reason we know they are Inari kitsune are those clues and now the symbols on the tails as well. The animal figure itself does not look like a fox. 

4 hours ago, Spartancrest said:

A kozuka on "flea spray" https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/275157078433  - the rare camel head weasel! 

 

And this kozuka animal looks very similar to the Inari kitsune menuki. 

[mecox]

Tanuki have been mentioned, but different, and I don't think as smart as kitsune

 

 

[Bugyotsuji]

Having said all of the above, it must be remembered that there was not a tradition of observing Nature in fine detail as we have in the West. Artisans were working from quite possibly inaccurate copies of copies, conscious of the symbology, yes, but less bothered by precision regarding exact species. 

 

Even today it is hard to find anyone who can tell a marten from a weasel for example, even showing them photos. Back in those days there might be a flash of furry movement in the bushes or the trees (like the kama-itachi above) and that would be it, unless you knew a hunter or trapper in the hills who could lay out a dead example. It was only in late feudal times and early Meiji that fine observation and depiction of Nature's creatures came to the fore.

[rematron]

12 hours ago, Bugyotsuji said:

Having said all of the above, it must be remembered that there was not a tradition of observing Nature in fine detail as we have in the West. Artisans were working from quite possibly inaccurate copies of copies, conscious of the symbology, yes, but less bothered by precision regarding exact species. 

 

Even today it is hard to find anyone who can tell a marten from a weasel for example, even showing them photos. Back in those days there might be a flash of furry movement in the bushes or the trees (like the kama-itachi above) and that would be it, unless you knew a hunter or trapper in the hills who could lay out a dead example. It was only in late feudal times and early Meiji that fine observation and depiction of Nature's creatures came to the fore.

Very good point.  That makes me curious about the development of animals in Japanese art over time.  A good thing for me to research since I enjoy art.  I suppose that's why early renditions of horses are relatively accurate considering they were around and about.  And a few other animals: birds, rats, frogs etc.  Although I'm sure there were more accurate renditions of foxes in Japan when my menuki were made, it is very possible that the artisan who made them had not seen those or perhaps that was just their artistic interpretation.  It also makes me curious as to how old my kinsuke menuki actually are and who made them.  It wasn't a factor when I bought them.  I just liked them.  

 

p.s.  I should probably start thinking about getting some tosogu books since I'm really enjoying this aspect of Nihonto.  A nice comprehensive book with illustrations and dates.  Dale was kind enough to refer me to some great tsuba books.  Know of any that concentrate on menuki and fuchi-kashira?

Edited January 12, 2023 by rematron
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[Spartancrest]

I am not familiar with this book but perhaps it holds what it says on the cover? https://www.slmoss.com/only-fittings

Though it looks a little 'thin'

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/284263878567

 

https://soldiersmuseum.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=607      https://www.ebay.com/itm/165282046776     https://www.amazon.com/Important-Japanese-Woodblock-Midnight-November/dp/B001BHEN2W

[Spartancrest]

Toso Soran by Kazutaro Torigoye has a little of both tsuba and smaller fittings written in both Japanese and English. [beautifully bound as well]

mentioned in this old thread.-- https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/1833-torigoye-kodogu-and-tsuba/

 

A little hard to come by but you might track a copy down - https://www.antikvariat.net/en/ansd22175-toso-soran-kodogu-and-tsuba-international-collections-not-published-my-books-torigoye     https://www.satcho.com/Tosogu.htm       https://www.cmmilitaryantiques.com/products.php?rid=8157

 

 

KOZUKA 100 Claud Thuault collection beautiful book with colour images of the kozuka's $140

 

https://www.cmmilitaryantiques.com/products.php?rid=8309

 

It is important to do some shopping around, some book sellers are to put it mildly "excessive" with their prices and you are better off searching for yourself once you find a title you might be interested in. For instance I recently bought a copy of Toso Soran for 5,000 yen [about $40 US] but other sellers were around the $160 > $200 range.

[rematron]

Wowsers! Thanks Dale! You have been such a big help in this new obsession of mine! 
 

P.S. my itachi menuki arrived safe and sound today and I have them in my hands and they are beautiful. 

[Spartancrest]

This looks like a good find - https://www.jauce.com/auction/d1078209100

"Sword guards and fittings from Japan : the collection of the Museum of Decorative Art, Copenhagen : bequest of Dr. Hugo Halberstadt / editorial supervision by the Museum of Decorative Art, Copenhagen ; critical commentary and plate descriptions by Nobuo Ogasawara ; with a foreword by Erik Lassen and a discussion of the collection by Jørgen Schou-Christensen"

Added bonus it is in both Japanese and English with a collection of fittings mixed in with the tsuba.

This book is selling for as much as US$ 820.00 elsewhere.

 

[I wish I hadn't already spent my pocket money for the month!]

 

 

another in English and Japanese also with a few fittings, good glossy images almost full size - hardcover cloth-bound

https://www.jauce.com/auction/q1077007609       Tosogu no Kansho  by Shoyukai.  82 pages.

This book is a limited edition of 1,500 copies from 1982

[Spartancrest]

Back on topic - what do people think of this site?  https://varshavskycollection.com/collection/tsu-0323/  usually very good information but not this theme!

No rabbit I know has a long bushy tail like this.

 

 

[rematron]

Through a combination of bad eyesight and visual conditioning I saw this as a kitsune with a weird snout like my menuki above. Then it hit me. I saw that the snout was actually ears and the head was turned around facing its tail. Anyways, I can see a rabbit now just because of its head but the long tail still eludes explanation. Why? I feel like rabbits were probably a common enough sight to be depicted accurately. Perhaps the artist was inventing their own hybrid beast. Or, I know! Kitsune are shape shifters and this is an image of one mid-transformation or it just wanted to have a rabbit head for some reason!

[SteveM]

3 hours ago, Spartancrest said:

what do people think of this site?

 

Its a very well-presented site, good photos, easy to read, and they have some very good pieces. I have been collecting examples of Torigoye hakogaki, and I have referenced a couple from this site that they've had translated by Markus. So as a collector they are accumulating some good pieces. As a web-designer they have crafted a good site. I wonder if they do not also visit and/or post on NMB?

 

As to whether that's a rabbit or fox or weasel or something else, they say in that description

"Small animal believed to be a fox, however some attribute it to a long-tailed rabbit or a squirrel. I am leaning towards the rabbit."

They reference another tsuba with the same theme that has a paper from NTBHK which just calls it an "animal/beast". Doesn't feel like a rabbit to me. I would have said fox or weasel.

[rematron]

Yeah the animal is really open to interpretation and maybe that was intentional.