Tanuki menuki

[rematron]

I purchased these tanuki menuki (fun to say. LOL) Anybody know what the one has in it’s mouth? Horse bridle? The other kind of looks like it has a tea kettle in front of it but that wouldn’t exactly follow the tanuki tea kettle fable. Or maybe it’s stealing a cooked chicken from a table?

[Bugyotsuji]

Jeremy there is an Inari fox shrine in Kyōto where the foxes carry keys to the Kura, and a 宝珠 Hōju. I have at least one Tsuba (somewhere) with these objects depicted. 
 

Ah, found it!

 

[rematron]

  On 12/25/2022 at 8:46 AM, Bugyotsuji said:

Jeremy there is an Inari fox shrine in Kyōto where the foxes carry keys to the Kura, and a 宝珠 Hōju. I have at least one Tsuba (somewhere) with these objects depicted. 
 

Ah, found it!

 

Expand  

Oh! So they’re foxes! Thanks Piers! I’m excited to learn about that. Thank you for the info. 

[rematron]

So this post should actually be called ‘Kitsune menuki’.  I really should have seen that. I’ve even been to that shrine although it was many years ago. Absolutely mesmerizing place. 

[Kanenaga]

Piers,

Could you kindly explain what your tsuba is depicting?

[Bugyotsuji]

Les, sure, four kagi keys to the kura, and two ho-ju dragon balls.

[Bazza]

And does the dragon have one dragn on the ground??!!

 

The name of whom we shouldn't speak!!

[Spartancrest]

This old thread has similar menuki animals.  Not sure we ever got a definitive answer as to what they were?

 

[Bugyotsuji]

  On 12/27/2022 at 6:17 AM, Bazza said:

And does the dragon have one dragn on the ground??!!

 

The name of whom we shouldn't speak!!

Expand  

Male dragons have three…? 
 

[rematron]

  On 12/27/2022 at 11:05 AM, Spartancrest said:

This old thread has similar menuki animals.  Not sure we ever got a definitive answer as to what they were?

 

Expand  

Oh, those are neat!  Curious indeed.  With the spots they're not obvious tanuki or kitsune.  Unless they were tanuki or kitsune so naughty they ended up in front of a firing squad!   Or tanuki trying to pass themselves off as cheetah, leopard or hyena. I want to try to figure out what those are supposed to be.  The menuki I purchased (above) were a little hard to gauge for me because of their ears that look very deer-like but the paws said badger so that's what I went with.  @Bugyotsuji called it right though.  By the objects that I was curious about, I have no doubt they are kitsune shrine guardians.  Kitsune with huge paws and deer ears. 

[rematron]

@SpartancrestThey could be leopard-cats I guess.  I'm only saying that because I feel like my menuki are definitely supposed to be kitsune even though they don't look like foxes but instead look like a badger body with a deer head, bear paws and a fox tail.  But those spots on the above animal are there on purpose so perhaps the artist took a little liberty or wasn't very skilled.  The more I look at tosogu the more varieties of skill and style I see.  Everywhere from realism to cartoon and everything in between.

 

 

[Spartancrest]

Check these ones out. "Otters" ? Why is that Otter eating a rat?  https://www.jauce.com/auction/t1077175074

[rematron]

  On 12/31/2022 at 6:28 AM, Spartancrest said:

Check these ones out. "Otters" ? Why is that Otter eating a rat?  https://www.jauce.com/auction/t1077175074

Expand  

Wow!  I love those!  Did they just come up? I was searching menuki on jauce just few hours ago. Lol. Definitely look like otters but yeah, I didn’t know otters would eat a rat… google here I come!

[rematron]

River otters' diets consist largely of crayfishes, crabs, and other aquatic invertebrates; fishes; and frogs. Despite concern that otters compete with game fishers, the fishes that otters consume are mainly non-game species. Otters may also occasionally prey on birds, rabbits, and rodents.
 

[rematron]

“May not ship internationally’” ‘blocked auction’. But there is the option to unblock the option and then they review the request? Have you ever done that? Hmmm.  They’re good quality and rare subject. You gonna bid on them @Spartancrest?  

[Spartancrest]

Jeremy. No not for me - just tsuba and tsuba related things for me. No big drama they usually "unblock" their auctions. Bought from them many times but their fees are heavy so have switched to Buyee - same auctions just a different redirecting warehouse. Try this - https://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/t1077175074

I find it easier to search on Jauce but the same ending code in the web address can be put in Buyee to find it there. [  /t1077175074  ] possibly works on Yahoo as well.  I am not an advocate of any particular auction site but I have noticed a huge mark-up on eBay, sometimes as much as 100% on the same object compared to the Japanese auction sites. 

case in point- https://www.jauce.com/auction/k1075593433

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/325467701998

 

Jauce BUY IT NOW price = $305.08 USD

eBay same object = $713.52 USD - even with extra fees that is a Big difference!

[Brian]

Are we sure it's eating a rat?
2 Other possibilities...it is fighting one, maybe some story or legend about an otter fighting off a predator?
Or...(my take on it) it could be carrying a baby otter. Note the similarity in paws and ears and snout.

[Spartancrest]

I hope you are right Brian - I don't like the idea of otters eating anything but fish! The 'baby' or rat has a thin tail compared to the larger ones - I am not sure the tails fit with otters? I thought an otters tail tapers thinner?

 

 

Tragic news - September 6, 2012  - Japan’s Ministry of the Environment officially declared the Japanese River Otter (Lutra lutra whiteleyi) extinct this week. The river otter, which had not been seen for more than 30 years, once numbered in the millions but was decimated by hunters, habitat destruction and pollution. Locals last spotted the animal in 1979 in Kochi Prefecture on Shikoku, and a single photo exists from the event. Over the years, several thorough searches for the otters in their old river playgrounds turned up nil.

 

I could cry!!

[Kurikata]

I would consider these animals not being otters but more probably weasels know as being very fine predators. My weasels eating a bird.... herewith (purchased to an estimated membre on this site)

[Bugyotsuji]

Agreed. I was going to say marten, but these are slimmer like Itachi 鼬　イタチweasels or stoats.

[Spartancrest]

Well they are not "gone" but in decline.  The tail is a better match!   Never trust an auction description! [especially if it is through Google translate!]

They look cute as babies! https://Japanese-weasel.com/raising-Japanese-weasel/

[rematron]

  On 12/31/2022 at 8:46 AM, Brian said:

Are we sure it's eating a rat?
2 Other possibilities...it is fighting one, maybe some story or legend about an otter fighting off a predator?
Or...(my take on it) it could be carrying a baby otter. Note the similarity in paws and ears and snout.

Expand  

Brian I think you’re right. Ow that I’ve slept on it. The tail of the ‘baby’ threw me but that’s the only thing that made it rat like. Everything else just looks scaled down. Little otter family. Now I want it even more. Lol

[rematron]

  On 12/31/2022 at 8:24 AM, Spartancrest said:

Jeremy. No not for me - just tsuba and tsuba related things for me. No big drama they usually "unblock" their auctions. Bought from them many times but their fees are heavy so have switched to Buyee - same auctions just a different redirecting warehouse. Try this - https://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/t1077175074

I find it easier to search on Jauce but the same ending code in the web address can be put in Buyee to find it there. [  /t1077175074  ] possibly works on Yahoo as well.  I am not an advocate of any particular auction site but I have noticed a huge mark-up on eBay, sometimes as much as 100% on the same object compared to the Japanese auction sites. 

case in point- https://www.jauce.com/auction/k1075593433

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/325467701998

 

Jauce BUY IT NOW price = $305.08 USD

eBay same object = $713.52 USD - even with extra fees that is a Big difference!

Expand  

This is great!  Thank you so much for these buying tips!  The kitsune menuki were my first purchase off jauce and it’s great to get more info on other options. I had no idea about the eBay markup. That’s crazy. 

[Franco]

  On 12/31/2022 at 6:28 AM, Spartancrest said:

"Otters" ? Why is that Otter eating a rat?

Expand  

 

These menuki bring back a memory from some 30 years ago. Where one early evening I decided to walk to a nearby shopping plaza about a half mile from home. The back access road to this plaza cut across a swampy area.  As I walked along this swampy area a surprising and unexpected dramatic scene unfolded literally right under my feet. A mink chased and ferociously attacked a muskrat eventually killing it only a few feet away. 

 

[Spartancrest]

Sometimes it takes me a while - this image is from "Album of Designs for Metal Carving (Chōsen Gafu)" - -  a book I resurrected in 2020 - - [ Hey I can't remember where all the images are, just that I have seen them before!  ] Unfortunately the pair to the design is not shown in the book.

[rematron]

Yeah, I’m also moving towards weasel or marten. I admit the description influenced me although the fur does have a wet slick look to it, the tail is just to bushy for an otter. Also when I looked at Japanese weasel in Wikipedia I found the caption below. So this looks like the description of a weasel hunting but considering the prey looks like a smaller version of the predator, I’m wondering if it may be a parent teaching the youngster how to hunt. 

 

[rematron]

Weasels have some pretty intense mythology around them too!

 

https://www.yokaistreet.com/the-kamaitachi/

[rematron]

This is probably a stretch but does anybody know the etymologies of the Japanese words for weasel (itachi) and the sword 'tachi'?  I'm wondering if the two words are cousins in the distant past...  Maybe @Bugyotsuji?

[ROKUJURO]

Jeremy,

there are many words with similar pronunciation but different spelling/writing in Japanese, so there is probably no connection. ITACHI is 鼬 in KANJI, while TACHI is 刀 (the same as KATANA).

If I remember correctly, there are 32 different syllables all pronounced SHO.....

Have fun!

[rematron]

@ROKUJUROThanks!