Guest nickn Posted June 20, 2009 Report Posted June 20, 2009 how common was it for swords to be named? i have two both end with maru the one in the photos is papered to rakuyo ju takai shinano no kami fujiwara nobuyoshi Quote
Guest nickn Posted June 20, 2009 Report Posted June 20, 2009 can anyone tell me what shu e maru means i get blood red stick or vermillion stick Quote
fwic2803 Posted June 20, 2009 Report Posted June 20, 2009 Probably this signature is readable with Shuzukamaru...:-) It was called red TSUKA Shu - red Tsuka - Tsuka Maru - the same as Mr./Ms.....etc. Quote
Brian Posted June 20, 2009 Report Posted June 20, 2009 Welcome to the forum. I am sure many of our members are customers of yours or have watched your auctions on eBay. Regards, Brian Quote
Ted Tenold Posted June 20, 2009 Report Posted June 20, 2009 Yes, welcome to the NMB. Please sign your name to your posts. I'd find it odd to address you as "fwic2803-san" or "fwic2803 maru". :lol: Quote
Guest nickn Posted June 20, 2009 Report Posted June 20, 2009 red tsuka mr/ms apart from the obvious does this have another meaning? Quote
reinhard Posted June 21, 2009 Report Posted June 21, 2009 the one in the photos is papered to rakuyo ju takai shinano no kami fujiwara nobuyoshi Can we see these papers, please? Otherwise it's not worth a second look. reinhard Quote
Guido Posted June 21, 2009 Report Posted June 21, 2009 The suffix "maru 丸" is used traditionally for names of ships, boys and swords. It's an indication that the sword was named in regard to its Koshirae, but there are - as we know by now - always exceptions when it comes to Nihontō. "aka 赤" and "shu 朱" both mean "red", but the latter is used for the vermillion hue we find with ink seals, traditional lip coloring, lacquer etc. in Japan and China. Quote
Guido Posted June 21, 2009 Report Posted June 21, 2009 The color, poor execution and unevenness of the surface of the Kinzôgan-Mei, along with the fact that one hardly finds the name of the Koshirae inlayed in the Nakago, makes me think that it's a recent addition. I, too, would be very interested in a scan of the papers and what they say. Quote
Grey Doffin Posted June 21, 2009 Report Posted June 21, 2009 Here's a neat trick for determining the age of kin zogan (gold inlay). When the inlay is done the gold and surrounding steel will be at the same height. With time, the steel corrodes and expands a tiny bit; gold doesn't corrode so it stays the original height. If you can't feel a very slight difference in the 2 metal's heights, you can assume that the zogan was done relatively recently. Grey Quote
fwic2803 Posted June 21, 2009 Report Posted June 21, 2009 Hi, And the character of Maru is wrong. To be right is 丸. Mitsuhiro. Quote
Guest nickn Posted June 21, 2009 Report Posted June 21, 2009 i only asked about named swords but again the snipes from the usual here are the papers i bet money someone ,oh i give up Quote
Nobody Posted June 21, 2009 Report Posted June 21, 2009 red tsuka mr/ms apart from the obvious does this have another meaning? The proper reading for the kin-zogan may be Shuzukamaru as already suggested in this case. However, 朱柄 generally reads Shu-e, and it means a specific stick shown in the attached picture. Ref. http://www.e-horindo.com/butugu/archive ... st-18.html Quote
Guest nickn Posted June 21, 2009 Report Posted June 21, 2009 thank you so shu e maru means red or vermillion gong stick any thought on why a sword would be named as such? Quote
Nobody Posted June 21, 2009 Report Posted June 21, 2009 Naturally I guess that the tsuka for the katana was red colored. Quote
Guest nickn Posted June 21, 2009 Report Posted June 21, 2009 the original saya was a rusty brown colour Quote
Brian Posted June 21, 2009 Report Posted June 21, 2009 Naturally I guess that the tsuka for the katana was red colored. Brian Quote
Guest nickn Posted June 21, 2009 Report Posted June 21, 2009 yes brian i read that i was only pointing out that the original saya was a rusty brown colour .if the original tsuka wrap was red it might have matched the saya?? Quote
Brian Posted June 21, 2009 Report Posted June 21, 2009 Thought you had misread the reply. I don't think there is any corrolation between the colour of the tsuka and the saya in most cases. Maybe nowdays when we have this "thing" for matching furniture, but I believe in my opinion the original owners were far less meticulous about koshirae matching. Brian Quote
Clive Sinclaire Posted June 22, 2009 Report Posted June 22, 2009 Gentlemen Please forgive me if I am taking this thread in a slightly different direction, but I find the subject of named swords quite interesting. There was one for sale at Christies a few weeks ago, a mumei blade attributed to Suzuki Masao and inscribed on the nakago and described as a kiritsuke-mei, were the charcaters "Kiyomu Maru" translated as "Mist Pincher" the significance of which escapes me. As the fine sword had a bright red saya I think it may have been a kinno-to. Also a friend of mine owns a very good gendai wakizashi by a 20th century smith named Munemitsu. On the nakago is the smith's name and the characters "Shumpukan". This means "Hall of the Spring Wind" and is a reference to a poem which likens the slashing of a Japanese sword blade to the "lightening in the spring wind". This was also the name of Yamaoka Teshu's kendo dojo (as well as mine) and many shopping malls in Japan today! The original oshigata of this sword resides in the kamiza of my dojo and it is Sword 58 on the UK Sword Register on http://www.To-ken Society of Great Britain, should you wish to view it. Thanks for your indulgence. Clive Sinclaire Quote
pcfarrar Posted June 22, 2009 Report Posted June 22, 2009 Also a friend of mine owns a very good gendai wakizashi by a 20th century smith named Munemitsu. Clive, I have a Katana by the same smith. He's the son of Koyama Nobumitsu. The mei on mine is identical to yours, minus the Shumpukan. I had the same problem trying to figure out which Munemitsu it was but Chris Bowen nailed it for me. Peter Quote
Eric H Posted June 27, 2009 Report Posted June 27, 2009 The previously mentioned Katana by SUZUKI MASAO Eric Quote
Clive Sinclaire Posted June 28, 2009 Report Posted June 28, 2009 Hi Eric I assume that it was your sword and I was sorry not to be able to buy it. Do you know to what the name referred or what it meant? Regards Clive Quote
Eric H Posted June 28, 2009 Report Posted June 28, 2009 Hi Clive The sword was offered in 2006 by a dealer at € 11980. This is what he wrote ... "A signed Katana from Edo period with attribution to TSUEKIRI MARU by NBTHK. This blade is not signed by the smith, but the signature is the sword owner's name" Since I have a particular interest in swords by Kiyomaro and his mon I have saved the pictures. I have never owned this sword. Perhaps there is an explanation on the origami, left beside "Suzuki Masao". Eric Quote
Nobody Posted June 28, 2009 Report Posted June 28, 2009 The NBTHK paper only shows the inscription and describes that it is a Kiritsuke-mei other than the attribution. This is my guess: The inscription looks 梜霧丸 to me, and I think that it is the name of the sword. The name may read "Sagiri-maru", although other kanji 狹 is usually used for the term. It just means mist (霧: kiri). In the context, “sa (梜)” is a prefix without exact meaning, and “maru (丸)” is a suffix to be used for a name of a sword. Quote
Clive Sinclaire Posted June 28, 2009 Report Posted June 28, 2009 Gentlemen Further quoting from Christies catalkogue on the Masao, it states that there is a "Silver habaki engraved with the characters for "hasamu-kyo" and "kiri-mu". What is the meaning of this, is it different from the nakago kiritsukr-mei or simply a different way of reading them? Clive Quote
Nobody Posted June 29, 2009 Report Posted June 29, 2009 Further quoting from Christies catalkogue on the Masao, it states that there is a "Silver habaki engraved with the characters for "hasamu-kyo" and "kiri-mu". What is the meaning of this, is it different from the nakago kiritsukr-mei or simply a different way of reading them? I suspect that the kanji on the habaki are the same name on the nakago. However, the first kanji might be deciphered incorrectly by the reader. (FYI: http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/lot_ ... ID=5205401 ) Because; 梜 read “kyo/sa”, 霧 reads “kiri/mu”, While; 狹 reads “semai/kyo/sa”, 挾 reads “hasamu/kyo”. Quote
Thierry BERNARD Posted June 29, 2009 Report Posted June 29, 2009 found this named sword on ebay! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160344785280&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.com%3A80%2F%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dp3907.m38.l1313%26_nkw%3D%2B160344785280%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1 Quote
Guido Posted June 29, 2009 Report Posted June 29, 2009 The Saidanmei of the sword Thierry linked to makes me feel uneasy (but maybe I'm just getting a little paranoid). I would expect a tester's mei along the lines of "山田浅右衛門吉X (Yamada Asaemon Yoshi_X)", and not "浅右衛門男山田萬吉", a name that is to my knowledge not listed in the Yamada family register (besides the strange way the name is written, i.e. the family name after the Zokumyô). And why do the papers only state the date of the Kinzôgan-mei, but not the name? Quote
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