NTHK-NPO Shinsa - April 28, 29, and 30 - CHICAGO

[Stephen]

2 hours ago, Mark S. said:

I ‘think’ (and I use that term loosely) the shinsa team started yesterday for mail-in items and for people who could drop off early?  I could also be completely wrong.  But the show officially starts today.  

I was wondering about that after I typed above

[NewB]

10 hours ago, Mark S. said:

Care to elaborate?

 

I'd rather not but ... yesterday was the first day of shinsa. The show starts today..

 

J

[NewB]

On 4/28/2023 at 9:11 AM, Infinite_Wisdumb said:

agree - why you down @NewB??

Well

 

I tried to paper a blade that was once papered And it was listed in the reikishi magazine.. didn't pass. Didn't get rejected either, forgot the term for 'needs further evaluation'. 

 

Also, I have a personal letter from Tokuno Kazuo regarding a smith from great lineage but with very scarce information and not many pieces available.. they turned it down...

 

Also A kotetsu candidate got a Kanemoto attribution-when looking online, my blade HAS NOTHING TO DO with his works (has NBTHK attribution to Aizu Nagamichi). 

 

 

And then the funniest part

 

A naoe shizu nbthk blade got a showa attribution - I'm literally laughing my behind off.. so - yes, it is cheaper to paper the blades when the shinsa team is here and NO , pay more and do NBTHK - period. And don't bring expensive names - they won't pass, just so they are on the safe side lol

 

Just my observation.. 

 

J.

 

[Infinite_Wisdumb]

damn @NewB!!!

[NewB]

2 minutes ago, Infinite_Wisdumb said:

damn @NewB!!!

 

Thats right! I have a shikkake blade that was once papered by them and now I'm not wanting to send it in - who knows - they might say it's Chinese 🤣

 

J

[Stephen]

Sorry Jon hard pill to swallow.

US shinsa teams are the not having good records both of them.

But im not going bring up old wounds. 

After a obvious koto blade called gendaito. I quit using them.

[NewB]

I don’t want to post photos of the blades as they have been discussed at length here.. I’m ready to say our dear forum members in a sense are very very knowledgeable and I’m just crushed that several well known dealers have confirmed the blades but shinsa turned them down. Not sure whether to laugh or cry

 

j.

[Bruno]

Mine passed 70 points kantei sho. It's fair considering the blade condition.

[Mark S.]

I’ll post a more detailed list of results in the near future… but, 8 out of my 10 items passed yesterday.  
 

One of my fails (Hizen Tadahiro katana) I pretty much knew was a no go, but wanted to get an opinion on what it was.  The team still felt it was a Shinto Hizen blade, just that the signature was gimei.  

 

The other fail was a saiha (retemper).  That one surprised me a bit.  But, oh well.

 

My best score of those that passed was 77.  

 

I have a daisho set of tsuba going today.  We shall see.

[DTM72]

Shinsa team at work.

My first submission on Thursday was determined to be a mystery to them. They said not enough information to confirm or deny the signature. A bit disappointing but it is whatever. Keeping the blade anyway so papers would have just been a bonus anyway.

My second submission was a last minute offer from another dealer who was packing up on Saturday evening. Submitted this morning and got a 76.

Final submission was the tachi I got this morning. Mumei, but scored a 73.

 

2 out of 3 so pretty happy.

[tokashikibob]

Yep,  I got a two out of three too.  The 5 hole katana got a question mark due to a  worn gakumei which Steve M and Jussi were able to ID the kanji on this board with good pictures.  Chris B said the second character was too worn to verify by the team.   I'd like some NMB papers!

[DTM72]

6 hours ago, tokashikibob said:

Yep,  I got a two out of three too.  The 5 hole katana got a question mark due to a  worn gakumei which Steve M and Jussi were able to ID the kanji on this board with good pictures.  Chris B said the second character was too worn to verify by the team.   I'd like some NMB papers!

I'll make you some papers!

 

I have a couple blades, recently passed through DTM72 shinsa and scored 112 points!

 

^^ Please read all that with sarcasm ^^

 

I do make my own information sheets that are similar in format to certification papers, but I add all the blade information with kanji and the English translation.

[Mark S.]

I’m not going to be shy.   Hope more members post results.  If you would like any more details about any of the blades, let me know.  
 

Here are my results from Saturday.  9 out of 11 of my blade submittals passed.  I’ll post one more result of Sunday daisho tsuba submittal later…
 

KATANA

— Mei: Hizen Kuni ju Omi Daijo Fujiwara Tadahiro - judged Gimei - however judges notes say “Kanbun Hizen”, so still same school.  I knew this one was probably gimei, but it was a good looking blade (for me) and I submitted to confirm it was not a total disaster.  When I asked ‘on the side’, I was told if submitted mumei, it probably would still have scored 71 or 72 points, but of course you will have to take my word for that.

WAKIZASHI

— Mei: Omi-no-kami  Minamoto  Rai  Sadamori. 77 points.  One point away from possible Yushu submittal!  Was kinda proud about this one as it was not a high cost blade and I trusted my research before buying… but as always, it was still a gamble.  Was told it was one of the higher scored blades of the Shinsa weekend.  Even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and again. 

 

WAKIZASHI

— Mei: Bizen Osafune ju Yokoyama Sukekane / A day in February 1862.  Mount Fuji hamon.  Nagasa on border between ko-wakizashi or o-tanto.  73 points.  Had previous old NBTHK Kicho Hozon white papers and I wanted to re-confirm.  Originally judged as tanto but NBTHK corrected to wakizashi in 2020 at a previous owners request and NTHK-NPO also stated wakizashi.

 

WAKIZASHI

— Mei: Kuwana ju Morishige - Judged meikan-more. 71 points.  It was in a very out of polish state when I purchased and while a blade with interesting activity, unfortunately, a fukure opened during polish, but still a respectable 71 points. And I felt it should be included in shinsa to get smith’s name recorded ‘somewhere’.  If you do a search on NMB, you will see blade previously discussed.

 

WAKIZASHI

— Mei: Omi no Kami Hojoji Tachibana Masahiro (1st Gen).  74 points.  This blade sparked my interest in the Hojoji school.  It also fueled a recent purchase from Grey Doffin of a Hojoji Tachibana Kunimasa katana.  Most definitely a school that has peaked my interest and will be a focus in the future.

 

WAKIZASHI

— MUMEI - was bounced as saiha.  A little surprised by this one.  Thought it might get Bungo which I was ok with, but did not expect saiha… oh well. Back to my blind squirrel status I guess. 

 

WAKIZASHI

— Mei: Kanazawa ju Darani Tachibana Katsukuni. 74 points

 

WAKIZASHI

— MUMEI - judged Den: Kashu Iyo Daijo Katsukuni. 73 points.  Thought it was a Mino blade, so  I need to study more.

 

TANTO

— Mei: Sei-ryu-shi Moriyuki. 71 points.  Was a little nervous about this blade as I could not find much about smith and example mei’s, and one kanji in mei seemed a bit ‘off’.  Blade is probably a bit tired, but I was pleasantly surprised by result.  

 

JUMONJI YARI

— Mei: Heian Jo Fujiwara Kunishige 75 points

 

HIRA SANKAKU YARI

(a last minute addition that showed up in the mail earlier than I expected - Shinsa team was able to squeeze it in with my other blades)

—  Mei (signed on all 4 sides of nakago): Izumi no Kami Kanesada (11th generation) / Keio 3 U (year of hare) 8th month / Made at Echigo Kuni Kamo / Made for Kasahara Hayato.

31.5cm nagasa. 73 points

[Derek]

It was a pleasure to meet you!   The Sadamori was excellent; I know they spent some time talking about it.  

The submissions overall this year were lower quality than 5 years ago, but the best were much better.  
I saw four submissions  that were among the best I have ever seen.  

[Mark S.]

7 hours ago, Derek said:

 The Sadamori was excellent; I know they spent some time talking about it.  

 

Was great meeting you and thank you for taking the time to stop and say hi and introduce yourself to me.   I know you were busy, so I really appreciate you sharing some of your time.
 

I know it is impossible, but I would love to be a fly on the wall during the discussion of blades to know more of the ‘why’.  Chris B. went out of his way and let me watch the team for a short while both Saturday and Sunday and I was lucky enough to watch them judge my daisho tsuba (from a distance) on Sunday.  Of course, not knowing the Japanese language made it a bit difficult.  

For everyone else, say what you will, but the judges take it seriously, are willing to talk back and forth, the time they take with so many items, and the research they do is impressive.  
 

If there is any discussion about the Sadamori you can share, I would love to hear a little background.  If you don’t want to air it in public, I’m more than happy with a PM. 
 

Thank you,

Mark S.

[ChrisW]

I had two successes:

 

A mumei 27.5' o-kissaki katana in red Higo koshirae came back ID'ed as Aizu Kanesada (11th generation), placed at 72 points.

 

A mumei 8" yoroi-doshi tanto in plain black shirasaya came back ID'ed as Nanki Shigekuni (also probably 11th generation), but it placed at 75 points.

 

Not bad for a couple of mumei! Weirdly both Ansei era, but it is what it is!

 

 

BIG thanks to Mark Jones and Chris Bowen for putting on the show and shinsa! I really enjoyed this year.

[DTM72]

On 5/1/2023 at 9:23 PM, Mark S. said:

I’m not going to be shy.   Hope more members post results.  If you would like any more details about any of the blades, let me know.  
 

Here are my results from Saturday.  9 out of 11 of my blade submittals passed.  I’ll post one more result of Sunday daisho tsuba submittal later…
 

I like the way you formatted your results. I'll post mine later tonight. Took two days off of work last week and it has taken me 4 days to catch back up.

[DTM72]

First submission on Thursday, early afternoon.

Katana

Mei-Tohto Tsuguhira Ka Ko Gane plus a lot of other kanji.
Returned as Horyu (undecided). Was pretty disappointed in the outcome but I plan on keeping it anyway so papers would have just been a bonus.

 

Katana

A dealer near my table was packing up to leave on Saturday afternoon. He came to my table and said last minute deal on a katana I had looked at a few times. I took another look at it and made an offer that he accepted.

Mei- Bungo Jyu Fujiwara Saneyuki

Took it to shinsa on Sunday morning and it passed with 76 points.

 

Tachi

Always wanted a tachi and finally got a great example from Matt Jerrel with Sohei swords. Took it immediately to shinsa and it was attributed to Chikuzen Kongobye Moritaka with 73 points.

 

Overall, very happy with the results. I plan on submitting the tachi koshirae at the next shinsa, whenever that may be.

 

Dan

[Mark S.]

12 hours ago, ChrisW said:

 

A mumei 27.5' o-kissaki katana in red Higo koshirae came back ID'ed as Aizu Kanesada (11th generation), placed at 72 points.

 

A pic or 2 would be appreciated.  My yari and this Katana have to meet! 

[Mark S.]

2 hours ago, DTM72 said:

 

…last minute deal on a katana…

Mei- Bungo Jyu Fujiwara Saneyuki

Took it to shinsa on Sunday morning and it passed with 76 points.

 

Well done!  Sometimes these just come out of nowhere!

[ChrisW]

11 hours ago, Mark S. said:

A pic or 2 would be appreciated.  My yari and this Katana have to meet! 

 

Sure, but I'll have to send you a link to the google drive with the images as they're all too large to post here on the forum!

[waljamada]

So posted this on another forum but this seems to be the more proper home for it:

 

RESULTS ARE IN:

 

1) The Kanekuni failed shinsa and was ruled as gimei with a wider possible attribution to Mino Den.  It was kantei'd to be from the Oei Era.   I didn't have a strong faith in the signature on this one and the age via the shinsa was a bit older than I originally thought it was.  I pegged it as late 1400s early 1500s, so I was close.

 

2) The Kunitsugu passed shinsa with 73 points to Etchu Uda Kunitsugu also from the Oei Era.  Out of the two I'm glad this was the one that papered.  This was my favorite of my unpapered blades.

 

Ōei (応永) was a Japanese era name (年号, nengō, "year name") after Meitoku and before Shōchō. This period spanned the years from July 1394 through April 1428. Reigning emperors were Go-Komatsu-tennō (後小松天皇,) and Shōkō-tennō (称光天皇).

 

So had a 50% success rate on the Meis but I'm still glad that the Gimei Kanekuni at least has a "confirmed" age.

 

Also the NTHK point system was unfamiliar to me so I had to research it.  It seems a 73 pointer to be a lower level "important" ranking.  Below is a pic of the Kunitsugu blade that passed.

[stevel48]

Passed as well

[O koumori]

1 hour ago, stevel48 said:

Passed as well

No it really didn't.

Judgement was reserved, and as it states, kanteisho will not be issued for living smiths.

Dan K

[stevel48]

I know they dont issue for living  smiths and was reserved due to the fact that he did not sign the work..i wonder what the next steps for this could be.

 

Quote from the broker was ", fantastic sword! Such a shame the signature is gone. The shinsa team really liked it!"

 

[O koumori]

You received an attribution, and 75 points. That's great! You just won't receive a 'paper' from Japan. Keep the working paper shown here!

[stevel48]

Thanks Dan!

[DTM72]

On 5/6/2023 at 8:27 PM, O koumori said:

You received an attribution, and 75 points. That's great! You just won't receive a 'paper' from Japan. Keep the working paper shown here!

I would second Dan's statement. Although you won't have the pretty certificate from Japan, the "worksheet" is a great item to accompany the sword.

[DoTanuki yokai]

On 5/2/2023 at 3:23 AM, Mark S. said:

 

WAKIZASHI

— Mei: Bizen Osafune ju Yokoyama Sukekane / A day in February 1862.  Mount Fuji hamon.  Nagasa on border between ko-wakizashi or o-tanto.  73 points.  Had previous old NBTHK Kicho Hozon white papers and I wanted to re-confirm.  Originally judged as tanto but NBTHK corrected to wakizashi in 2020 at a previous owners request and NTHK-NPO also stated wakizashi.

Should be my Blade 

Seriously  well done, now we know the corrected  papers are a real thing. (?) 

It is a cool blade from a good smith with a Style not often seen among his blades enjoy it. 

[Mark S.]

Realized I promised to post about daisho tsuba… and forgot.  There is a story behind why it was submitted to Shinsa, but probably only interesting to me.  
 

The set passed as a daisho set with a score of 74.  I was a little confused by the worksheet as it did not state “Saotome” (which I thought was pretty much a slam dunk).  It also stated “2nd generation”, but not 2nd generation “Who”?  It just states Aki (Geishu) and the era.  I contacted Chris B. with my questions and he said he would check with Shinsa team for verification.  I figure it’s better to get it worked out BEFORE official kanteisho papers are sent out, although I’m sure team would have probably put more specifics on the papers.