SwordGuyJoe Posted June 19, 2009 Report Posted June 19, 2009 It wouldn't be the first time, but I am wondering if I am wrong on a translation. I read this as Kanetoshi - as the picture name indicates. Am I wrong? Kanenami? Thanks for the help! Quote
SwordGuyJoe Posted June 19, 2009 Author Report Posted June 19, 2009 When I took a second look, that was kind of what I was thinking too. Thanks Koichi Quote
Ludolf Richter Posted June 20, 2009 Report Posted June 20, 2009 Hi!Besides the fact that there is no Kanenami,i do believe that the Mei reads Kanetoshi.It may be from one of the Showato guys from Gifu (former Mino) KAN 2637 (no signature to be found in my books) or KAN 2638. The 3rd one,KAN 2632,has a different Mei.From KAN 2638 I could only find a Nakarishi-Mei (look at Dr.Stein's site),where a specialist made the Mei for that Kanetoshi (and several other swordsmiths like the one of one of my swords).Ludolf Quote
Nobody Posted June 20, 2009 Report Posted June 20, 2009 “Kanenami” appears on the following pages. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=773&hilit=kanenami http://www.h4.dion.ne.jp/~t-ohmura/gunto_040.htm http://www.bidders.co.jp/item/121035520 Quote
loiner1965 Posted June 20, 2009 Report Posted June 20, 2009 viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5522 i am looking for info on this showa kanetoshi too....maybe the same smith but using two meis Quote
SwordGuyJoe Posted June 21, 2009 Author Report Posted June 21, 2009 I have been looking a lot at the Kanetoshi meis that are online and in my reference manuals (specifically Fuller and Gregory's "Swordsmiths of Japan 1926 - 1945") and this looks A LOT like the oshigata I have found on Kumazawa Kanetoshi. I don't mean to doubt Koichi - because you have helped me a lot - but is it possible that this is Kanetoshi? Loiner, can you post a photo of your mei to see how close/far off this is? Quote
reinhard Posted June 21, 2009 Report Posted June 21, 2009 http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5522i am looking for info on this showa kanetoshi too....maybe the same smith but using two meis Like Moriyama-san pointed out already: This mei reads KANENAMI. Since it is written in a clear and simple way, the kanji for NAMI and TOSHI can hardly be confused. reinhard Quote
loiner1965 Posted June 21, 2009 Report Posted June 21, 2009 I have been looking a lot at the Kanetoshi meis that are online and in my reference manuals (specifically Fuller and Gregory's "Swordsmiths of Japan 1926 - 1945") and this looks A LOT like the oshigata I have found on Kumazawa Kanetoshi. I don't mean to doubt Koichi - because you have helped me a lot - but is it possible that this is Kanetoshi? Loiner, can you post a photo of your mei to see how close/far off this is? hi. as far as i know this smith used nijimei as my mei is the long version.....here is mine viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5522 Quote
loiner1965 Posted June 21, 2009 Report Posted June 21, 2009 here is another kanetoshi mei which to my eyes is the same as yours http://www.ryujinswords.com/kanetoshi.htm Quote
Nobody Posted June 21, 2009 Report Posted June 21, 2009 There seems to be a lot of confusion. here is another kanetoshi mei which to my eyes is the same as yourshttp://www.ryujinswords.com/kanetoshi.htm The mei on the sword on the linked page is undoubtedly Kanenami. Quote
loiner1965 Posted June 21, 2009 Report Posted June 21, 2009 There seems to be a lot of confusion. here is another kanetoshi mei which to my eyes is the same as yourshttp://www.ryujinswords.com/kanetoshi.htm The mei on the sword on the linked page is undoubtedly Kanenami. thank you for the pm Quote
SwordGuyJoe Posted June 21, 2009 Author Report Posted June 21, 2009 After viewing the "Kanetoshi" link posted by Steve, I am pretty positive that my mei is the same. One reason is the "Rockwell" test - although it may of shoots the theory posted about an army engineer making the stamps. My blade has the same stamps. Does anyone have any thoughts on what this would be? Seems to be a pretty off chance that the same "test" was conducted on a blade by the same smith. I have also looked in all of my references and scanned the internet for anything by Kanenami. Is it possible that this could be another smith's mei - Like Yasunori also signed Takenori? Thanks everyone for the great discussion and Koichi, I certainly didn't mean any disrespect. I sincerly appreciate all of the help you have given me when I run up against the wall and even in this case when I think I get it right... Quote
SwordGuyJoe Posted June 22, 2009 Author Report Posted June 22, 2009 I found another blade with similar stamps. Anyone have any thoughts? Maybe this should be moved to the military board? http://www.nihontoantiques.com/images/Blade%20(33).jpg Look below the mekugi-ana - looks the same. Quote
Nobody Posted June 23, 2009 Report Posted June 23, 2009 toshi 俊 or nami 波 ?!Ludolf I hope that you can feel the sense of Nami (波) in sosho style. Quote
Ludolf Richter Posted June 23, 2009 Report Posted June 23, 2009 Hi Koichi,I am quite astonished about what you are telling us with the Sosho writing,which this swordsmith didn't use.I believe that you are not accepting,that there is no Kanenami Showato but 3 Kanetoshi from Gifu.What about the left part of the last Kanji he used,which differs from the one of your "nami".The writing of "toshi" maybe his personal style.Ludolf Quote
Brian Posted June 23, 2009 Report Posted June 23, 2009 Except, Ludolf....that Moriyama san has already shown us 3 examples earlier in this thread of the smith Kanenami from WW2. And the sosho shows us which strokes might be abbreviated when writing the stylized kanji. You can clearly see it in the sosho, even though he didn't sign in sosho....it is like the cursive script for kanji. Yes..after seeing that I can quite easily see how it would be Kanenami. Thanks for the clear demonstration Koichi Brian Quote
drbvac Posted June 23, 2009 Report Posted June 23, 2009 I hope someone can come up with a definitive pic of a similar mei because I can see where "if " it was written in a "cursive" soshu style it could be Kanemani - BUT its not. Its like looking at a photograph but if it the same thing looked like a PIcasso it would look like something else - of course it would, but would it be identifiable as the first or the second ? Quote
drbvac Posted June 23, 2009 Report Posted June 23, 2009 I am losing it I think - Had a look in George Trotters book and there is a Kanetoshi and a Kanemani. Sort of light pictures but here they are - fill your boots! The Kanemani is a Naval Gunto, made in the 40's the Kanetoshi, a 1943 tachi in gunto mts. EDIT: I added the original "KAnetoshi Mei 1 photo that started this topic and if you compare them all Koichi is correct as the Kanemani from Trotters book although a little rough is the same. I guess the Kanetoshi Mei 1 is actually Kanemani. Quote
reinhard Posted June 23, 2009 Report Posted June 23, 2009 Thank you, Moriyama-san, for your extraordinary patience. reinhard Quote
SwordGuyJoe Posted June 24, 2009 Author Report Posted June 24, 2009 I have been sold for a while, but my Kanenami is in naval mounts. Not a lock tight conclusion, but another indication that Koichi was correct and I should know better than to ask, "Are you sure?" Quote
loiner1965 Posted June 24, 2009 Report Posted June 24, 2009 Koichi Moriyama san was correct joe as he sent me details in a pm but the link i posted here was wrongly identified as kanetoshi unfortunately....mistakes happen Quote
Ludolf Richter Posted June 24, 2009 Report Posted June 24, 2009 What's the conclusion?Is he now regarded as a hitherto non recorded Showa swordsmith,because a Kanenami is not listed in the following sources?Ludolf Hawley Tokuno Gendai Toko Meikan Gendai Toko Kinko Shitsu Kata Soran A Guide to Showa Swordsmiths 1926-Present An Oshigata Book of Modern Japanese Swordsmiths 1868-1945 Dr.Stein/Oshigata of Showa Era Swordsmiths Swords and Swordsmiths of the Gendaito Period 1868-1989 Undocumented Showa Era Swordsmiths Modern Japanese Swords and Swordsmiths From 1868 to the Present Nihonto Club Swordsmiths Database Quote
drbvac Posted June 24, 2009 Report Posted June 24, 2009 Whomever sneered at George Turner for interest in MIlitary blades can ask him as the two photos I posted came from his book! Or we could hope he is reading again and may get in on this! Quote
Markus Posted June 24, 2009 Report Posted June 24, 2009 What's the conclusion?Is he now regarded as a hitherto non recorded Showa swordsmith,because a Kanenami is not listed in the following sources? I would say, YES I found another Kanenami on bidders: http://www.bidders.co.jp/item/122357332 If he is recorded or not does not matter. There is "Kanenami" written on the tang, and that´s that. Quote
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