Forged sword vs cast iron (tsuba?)

[Dan tsuba]

Hello all!

 

So, some interesting stuff.  One thing leads to another!  I posted something on the Nihonto thread about a 2000-year-old cast iron sword.

 

I also posted a video on that thread that shows a cast iron sword taking a “hit” from a forged iron sword before the cast iron sword breaks.

 

So, could a cast iron tsuba take a hit from a forged iron sword?  My conclusion is – yes!  Maybe one or two hits at most, but it would probably still be intact.  Of course that depends on where the tsuba was struck by the forged iron sword and how hard the tsuba was struck by the forged iron sword.  But it still seems possible that a cast iron tsuba could take a "hit or two"!

 

Here is the link to the video (start it at about 17:50 to see the forged sword being hit against the cast iron sword)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHS0NXr1xbk&list=RDCMUCfIqCzQJXvYj9ssCoHq327g&index=6

 

The adventure continues!

 

With respect,

Dan

 

 

[roger dundas]

Does a tsuba need to be able to take a hit from an opponent's sword and in reality  how many show evidence of a sword strike? One would think so but not necessarily apparently.

Isn't the only or main reason for having a tsuba is to stop the owner's hand from sliding up onto the cutting edge.

Another one of those discussions that keep coming up and going round and round.

Roger j

[Dan tsuba]

Roger, my friend.

 

You are correct.  As I have learned, the main purpose of a tsuba is as you stated.  To keep the hand from sliding up on the blade (and also maybe to add “weight” to the blade?).

 

I only started this the thread because I have encountered many individuals on a previous thread (that I started) that thought that a cast iron tsuba "could not take a hit”.

 

Onward!

 

With respect,

Dan

 

[OceanoNox]

I argue that the tsuba, at least until Edo period (and likely after, depending on class), were meant for protection.
The evidence I have for that, is a copy of scroll of Hayashizaki Shin Muso Ryu from 1701, published in a investigation report on Hayashizaki Jinsuke Shigenobu, who is said to be one of the main influence on iai. The scroll states "鍔は只拳の楯と聞物を太くも太くもなきは非がごと", which is hard to translate, but I have found it would mean that a tsuba should be thick as it is a "shield for the hand" and thin tsuba are bad.

The other evidence is from practicing Shinkage ryu (taught by Matsuoka Yoshitaka), where when the sword is carried by hand, the thumb is placed on the tsuba just over the edge, to allow to parry with the tsuba and tsuka without getting cut on the thumb. There also kata where the enemy's weapon is meant to be caught between tsuba and habaki.

Now, in terms of tsuba being able to perform as "hand shield", that is another matter, and as I have said in another thread, it is difficult to conduct meaningful studies, as the tsuba that remain might just be only the ones that were not damaged.

For those interested, the ladies at Usagiya have uploaded the damage on a sword in late Edo:

http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/katanainfight.html