Tang Ubu / un-shortened 1 hole & Signed : Norimitsu School : Bizen, Norimitsu Sue-Bizen late Muromachi period circa 1500's

[Swords]

Hi I have been doing research for Norimitsu 

Because it’s sue Bizen sword that this smith is known for making great swords 

But then I read that they were mass produced for the war effort the quality wasn’t very good due to many unskilled smiths had to keep up with the war effort 

Since it was made in the Bizen province they had access to good materials and Tamahagane 

Dont get me wrong it’s a nice sword and from a reputable seller I just wanted to get more opinions from others

 

 

 

[Nihonto Chicken]

Sorry I can't answer your inquiry directly.  Will mention that one of my two great attic finds is a kanmuri otoshi katana (not a naginata oroshi) that was papered by the NBTHK in Japan and authenticated as by Norimitsu in Eisho.  I can now rest assured that it has passed its 500th birthday. 

[MarcoUdin]

Sorry if this isn't the answer you're expecting, but that seller(Eric) is quite informed and prices accordingly. Most likely blade is market value based off it's quality plus dealer markup. In short, I doubt Eric is looking to hoodwink anybody this is his business.

 

[ChrisW]

Eric is a stand-up guy and if his price doesn't exactly suit you, talk to him and negotiate a little. He won't cut himself off at the knees, but he is like any merchant of sense and will work towards making a sale if you're reasonable with him.

 

I recommend him. I've bought from him before and been quite satisfied with what I got.

[Brian]

Yip. And he'll tell you exactly what it is, with nothing left out. He's not cheap, but you get decent quality and a good description.

[DoTanuki yokai]

Wait untill Eric finds out how you buy things and don’t pay them to cancel the sale after you found more out. Maybe he will make it faster and don’t sell it to you ? That’s what I would do. 
 

The blade itself fits in the timeframe of kazuuchinono and got a nijimei. 
From the pictures available I can’t say anything about the quality. 

[Brian]

Kazuuchimono were done late Koto times. But so were good swords. You can only evaluate a sword to determine if it was one or not. This does not appear to be a mass produced sword.

[lonely panet]

imho for what its worth on the poor pics, 

 

i wouldnt look at it to hard,  imho its kizu uchi imho, the mei to my eye is kazuuchimei and the nakago has had the machi's moved up.

for a nice sue bizen piece the mei should read bishu osafune  ....... or evan better bizen koku ju osafune.......

 

the kissaki and the hada all look low end 

 

but its just my opinion. 

[Swords]

If you read my post I said it was a nice sword from a reputable guy 

I didn’t want this to be about Eric just others perspectives!

 

I bought 2 swords from Eric and are quite nice! Here we go again! As far as the cancel remark know one asked what you would do!

 

Thanks for everyone’s help I hope you have a wonderful Christmas and New Year 

 

steve

[Brian]

The thing is, Eric is an OG, respected and well known dealer in the Nihonto world. One of the handful of US guys that have been around forever and are well part of the US Nihonto scene. Like some of the dealers on the forum here, Mike Y etc etc.
So buying from them, and then posting it here for opinions can be seen not only as disrespectful but as fairly pointless and potentially disruptive. It's not that anyone in this field is beyond question. But anyone knowing the sellers in that community would not bother to post a reply. Why do that? The seller will have provided accurate info initially. Asking for certain additional info...sure. But asking for opinions on the sword....nah.
It's like buying a sword from Ray or Ed or Nick R...and then posting it here for opinions. These are the backbone of the community and requesting a second opinion isn't going to get far.


 

[Jacques D.]

Brian,

 

I'm sorry but a description without photo without habaki is not that fair. A dealer is a dealer not a philanthropist, it's his interest first.

[Brian]

Is it so hard to ask for one? Any buyer is free to make up his mind on any sword, and ask any questions he likes. My point is not that anyone is beyond question, but there are right ways and wrong ways, and sometimes it's pointless.
Try having Bob B or Takeo Seki etc polish a sword of yours, and then post it on FB asking for opinions. See how far that gets you.

[Jacques D.]

On 12/15/2022 at 10:31 AM, Brian said:

Kazuuchimono were done late Koto times. But so were good swords. You can only evaluate a sword to determine if it was one or not. This does not appear to be a mass produced sword.

Kazuuchimono were made all the time even if they were more produced during the Sengoku jidai. A kazuuchimono is a practical sword without artistic features.  

[Swords]

Brian your right!  If it was a sword from Joe blow it wouldn’t matter! One person doesn’t know everything but collectively may know more! That was my intent 

I meant no disrespect so I will leave it with that!

 

 

 

[Jacques D.]

8 hours ago, Brian said:

Is it so hard to ask for one? Any buyer is free to make up his mind on any sword, and ask any questions he likes. My point is not that anyone is beyond question, but there are right ways and wrong ways, and sometimes it's pointless.
Try having Bob B or Takeo Seki etc polish a sword of yours, and then post it on FB asking for opinions. See how far that gets you.

 

You are mixing pears and apples...

[Okan]

On 12/16/2022 at 2:57 PM, Swords said:

Brian your right!  If it was a sword from Joe blow it wouldn’t matter! One person doesn’t know everything but collectively may know more! That was my intent 

I meant no disrespect so I will leave it with that!

 

 

 

I don’t think this blade was made by “the” Norimitsu. Hada doesn’t look right, also the quality. Is it papered? If not consider its gimei. Did you buy this?

[Swords]

Firstly Jacques I think you gave Mark Twain some competition!! 
 

Okan I think you should tell Eric that it’s not a Norimitsu sword and see what he says!

I think you’re wrong !! It’s an original Norimitsu sword!!

 

[Baba Yaga]

On 12/14/2022 at 6:51 PM, Swords said:

Hi I have been doing research for Norimitsu 

Because it’s sue Bizen sword that this smith is known for making great swords 

But then I read that they were mass produced for the war effort the quality wasn’t very good due to many unskilled smiths had to keep up with the war effort 

 

 

 

Ya, I never prescribed to that "theory",  mass produced for the war effort the quality wasn’t very good due to many unskilled smiths had to keep up with the war effort.

It's not logical so many swords made it through the ages in this good of condition. It was also said, if Samurai returned after battle with inferior swords smiths would be executed.

 

 

[Seth]

21 minutes ago, Swords said:

Firstly Jacques I think you gave Mark Twain some competition!! 
 

Okan I think you should tell Eric that it’s not a Norimitsu sword and see what he says!

I think you’re wrong !! It’s an original Norimitsu sword!!

 

 

Why ask for an opinion and then go after people when they give an opinion? He made a valid point is it papered? The big question to ask yourself is do you like the sword? If you do then does it really matter? I have blades that I am sure other people would think are junk but they still bring me joy so who cares!

[drbvac]

Honest to GOD people settle down - I am tired of all the snarky replies I have seen on the board of late - make a statement if your want but be sure of what you are saying and state it succinctly and no personal comments or thoughts - this is a group of gentlemen collectors who happen to like a strange thing to collect and in the true style of the Japanese - be polite . 

[Swords]

If you read my post  I was only addressing the comments that it wasn’t made by Norimitsu but I agree with you about swords coming back in good condition 

 

[Jussi Ekholm]

I do believe it is legitimate sword by Norimitsu (則光) from Bizen province around mid-late Muromachi period. Now the "problem" is there were lots of Norimitsu (則光) smiths working during that time. So it would need an expert evaluation and in the end it could end up something extremely vague such as Norimitsu - Sue-Bizen, which does not pinpoint anything special.

 

Around that time period I believe there were at least 7 "named" Norimitsu smiths and probably at least as much other Norimitsu smiths in Bizen.

[Alex A]

Its a popular subject

 

What folk need to try and  get their head around is that Kazu-uchimono is a BROAD spectrum .From junk that went abroad to swords that are good, well made fighting weapons.

 

 

[Swords]

It’s good to hear others know about Norimitsu since of course it’s my sword and any positive  information is welcome 

Yes there were many smiths signing his swords for the war effort Since his swords were from the Bizen province they had access to good raw materials which is a good thing And it’s like any other sword depending who made 

[Ooitame]

Is their any utsuri?

[Swords]

I need to look at it under good light I’m far from a expert but will give it a try 

[Ooitame]

Here is my Norimitsu for comparison if you like, hope it helps: 

 

[Okan]

6 minutes ago, Ooitame said:

Here is my Norimitsu for comparison if you like, hope it helps: 

 

 

Very nice sword Eric! 

[Ooitame]

Thank you @Okan! Took me three years to find the right one. Many boxes needed to be checked after learning from here, others, and at shows. I should have submitted for Juyo, while it was still in Japan. But, the Koshirae build took that budget away, and my impatience.  Maybe one day...

[Alex A]

OP,, Surely with the amount of posts you have made and info learned you can come to a conclusion.

 

 

Sometimes, i guess you just got to ask

 

 

Fair enough