Help on translating nakago mei

[pica]

I have this katana but I can’t translate the Mei, it seem to be iyo……….. kanetoshi saku, but I haven’t found  anything else to compare.

Thanks

[Bruno]

Kanetoshi, maybe.

[C0D]

i think the beginning is 伊奈波 Inaba, can't figure out the middle part, end is 兼利作 Kanetoshi saku 

[SteveM]

伊奈波鍛錬場兼利作

[pica]

Thanks for the answers, 

Anybody have any information about this smith

[Bruno]

Just type his name on the forum, there must be several threads about him.

[pica]

I've just tryied but i haven't fund nothing about showa kanetoshi with this kanji and also nothing about inaba tanrenjo

[mecox]

Stefano, there is one with this "toshi" :

KANETOSHI (兼利), Shōwa (昭和, 1926-1989), Gifu – “Kanetoshi” (兼利), real name Shōka Toshikazu (荘加利一), born February 22, 1911 (Meiji 44).  (also Feb 25).

He registered as a Seki tosho Showa 15 (1940) Sept 1 (age 29) and was from Seki, Kamo-gun, Kamono-mura.   

He worked as rikugun-jumei-tōshō (as Shoka Kanetoshi) and listed as Ryōkō no Retsu (by Akihide Hikosaburo) in 1942.......but here uses other "toshi"   荘加 兼俊 (Shoka Kanetoshi)

[pica]

I’ve posted the photos of the blade on this topic

 

[Bruce Pennington]

On 12/13/2022 at 2:59 PM, mecox said:

Stefano, there is one with this "toshi" :

KANETOSHI (兼利), Shōwa (昭和, 1926-1989), Gifu – “Kanetoshi” (兼利), real name Shōka Toshikazu (荘加利一), born February 22, 1911 (Meiji 44).  (also Feb 25).

He registered as a Seki tosho Showa 15 (1940) Sept 1 (age 29) and was from Seki, Kamo-gun, Kamono-mura.   

He worked as rikugun-jumei-tōshō (as Shoka Kanetoshi) and listed as Ryōkō no Retsu (by Akihide Hikosaburo) in 1942.......but here uses other "toshi"   荘加 兼俊 (Shoka Kanetoshi)

Mal,

After doing some web searches for this mei, I found this page, translated, "Inaba Sword Forging" here:

Inaba Sword Forging (White Sheath) (osaka-ryujindo.jp)

 

I've seen other mei with the "Inaba" beginning, and have some kaigunto with Toyokawa anchor and a modified 伊 under the anchor.  Do you think we are seeing blades made at the Inaba Forge?

[mecox]

Bruce, not straightforward.  The sword shown by Stefano and reported by SteveM is:  伊奈波 鍛錬場 兼利 作.  Can be read:   "Inaba Tanrenjo Kanetoshi saku".

First challenge is that  伊奈波  can be read as INA-BA or INA-NAMI.   (apparently is also a fish "striped bonito").

There was a productive WW2 tosho with signature usually read as  KANENAMI  兼波.  He mostly signed KANENAMI or KANENAMI SAKU, but one example of INANAMI KANENAMI SAKU.  These blades have no dates or stamps and look to be Showato plus semi- traditional han-tan (some forging, some hamon). Although he signs "Kane" he is not in the list of Seki registered smiths.  He looks to have largely produced kaigunto, but also some shingunto.  All appear well made and in quality koshirae, which suggests custom job?   Possibly 伊奈波 is his family name?

Also, there is an example of a stainless steel blade (kaigunto) from Toyokawa Arsenal (Mikawa Bay, in Aichi Pref) with stamp of anchor in circle, plus 3 kanji   伊奈波 .  It is considered that many Toyokawa blades (maybe not stainless ones??) may have been made in Seki then sent to Toyokawa for acceptance and mounting.  

So as a concept, was there a Inaba/Inanami workshop (tanrenjo) in Seki that produced blades for Toyokawa??  With tosho such as Kanenami 兼波 and Kanetoshi 兼利.

Also Matsubara SHOZO  (KANEYOSHI)   松原 正造 兼吉, younger brother of Nakata Kanehide of Seki and reported as a "Kaigun Jumei Tosho" for Toyokawa Arsenal.  Also he had signed "Inaba Kaneyoshi"

Some oshigata and discussion given in NMB Downloads  "Japanese Naval Swords" part 1 & 2. 

Concept only, not confirmed.

 

[Bruce Pennington]

12 hours ago, mecox said:

Can be read:   "Inaba Tanrenjo Kanetoshi saku".

Thanks for the discussion Mal.  It reminds me of other forges that wrote out the forge name on the nakago, Tenshozan Sword Forge is one of them, which coincidentally is another forge that made blades for Toyokawa.  I have 6 of the Inaba/Inanami blades on file and all of them are signed as such with no other name attached.  And all 6 have the unknown stamp added below the Toyokawa anchor.  I have 3 other mystery stamps that appear below the anchor - a "HA", "KA", and "moustache".  The Ha and Ka are on mumei navy blades and the moustache is on a Tsukushi Suetsugu Shigemitsu navy blade.  I'm starting to feel like these are all forge logo.  And I suggest the Inaba is, in fact, the Inaba Sword Forge I found in the above link.  Simply the forge name, like the Tenshozan mei.

I'm searching, now, for my reference on the stated 'Inaba Kaneyoshi' as none of the nakago on file show 'Kaneyoshi'.  It might have been a speculative statement on one of the threads.

 

Update:  @BANGBANGSAN made the statment that the Inaba mei was of Inaba Kaneyoshi on this post HERE.

 

[george trotter]

As Mal says,

There is an  example signed KANENAMI KORE (o) SAKU (no date) on pages 97-98 in my 1989 catalogue of the Japanese Swords and Fittings in the West Australian Museum. Seems to be well made ...better than the usual sort of showato.

Kaigunto fittings of good quality.

Regards.

[pica]

Thanks for all information 

My sword is surely a traditional hand forged blade, i don't know if made with tamagane or other steel.

Is it possible that the blade was forged by a Kaneyoshi that usually not forge at Inaba and changed the kanji of Toshi in this case?

[SteveM]

I'd love to get more intel on this Inaba Forge. Nothing obvious pops up in a Japanese search, except for some circular references to swords at auction sites. Do any of the WW2 sword authors have anything to say on this forge? 

 

There is an Inaba Shrine in Gifu, not too far from Seki city. My guess is that the Inaba Forge was a part of, or affiliated with, this Inaba Shrine, but again I can't find anything. Probably missing something super obvious.

[BANGBANGSAN]

On 12/17/2022 at 9:49 AM, SteveM said:

I'd love to get more intel on this Inaba Forge. Nothing obvious pops up in a Japanese search, except for some circular references to swords at auction sites. Do any of the WW2 sword authors have anything to say on this forge? 

 

There is an Inaba Shrine in Gifu, not too far from Seki city. My guess is that the Inaba Forge was a part of, or affiliated with, this Inaba Shrine, but again I can't find anything. Probably missing something super obvious.

Steve

Here is some information I found related to the Inaba Forge 

松原兼吉刀匠の本名は松原正造氏、祖は南北朝時代大和から志津三郎包氏と共に関に移住した手掻包吉の子で、その後室町時代初期応永頃に兼吉と改めました。本刀は鞘書きと箱書きによりますと、昭和19年5月太平洋戦争が苛烈な時、東条英機内閣が総辞職した時、濃州関に有りました伊奈波鍛刀場に於いて松原兼吉刀匠が記念として後世に本刀を残すべく渾身の力で打ち上げた刀です。

https://www.nipponto.co.jp/swords8/NT331993.htm

[SteveM]

Very nice! Finally we have a record of this Inaba Tanrenjō at Seki. A quick translation:

 

The ancestor of swordsmith Matsubara Kaneyoshi (real name Matsubara Shōzōji) was the son of Tegai Kaneyoshi (手掻包吉) , and he moved moved from Yamato to Seki in the Nambokuchō era, along with Shizu Saburō Kaneuji, after which he changed his name to Kaneyoshi (兼吉) in the early Muromachi period. According to the sayagaki and hakogaki of this sword, in May 1944, when the Pacific War was raging and the cabinet of Tōjō Hideki resigned en masse, Matsubara Kaneyoshi forged this memorial sword at the Inaba Tanrenjō in Seki (Noshū), giving himself wholeheartedly to its completion so that it could be left for later generations.   

[Kiipu]

@BANGBANGSAN What is this all about 刀茎有伊奈波神社的海军锚标?

二战97式海军刀

[BANGBANGSAN]

1 hour ago, Kiipu said:

@BANGBANGSAN What is this all about 刀茎有伊奈波神社的海军锚标?

二战97式海军刀

Most of the information about Gunto in simplified Chinese was translated from some Japanese Sources and some of them just made an assumption.

In this ad, it assume  the Toyogawa Ancher mark is the used by 伊奈波神舍.

[Bruce Pennington]

Photo from above.  Try as I might, I cannot see an anchor stamp, mentioned by the site posting this sword.  Also, What does the mei say in English?

[george trotter]

Hi Bruce...not a WWII sword.

Mei says "Kozuke no kami Kanemune".. This was a line of smiths of Yamato Tegai group 1300s - 1600s I think.

 

So definitely no anchor stamp.

[BANGBANGSAN]

2 hours ago, george trotter said:

Hi Bruce...not a WWII sword.

Mei says "Kozuke no kami Kanemune".. This was a line of smiths of Yamato Tegai group 1300s - 1600s I think.

 

So definitely no anchor stamp.

This is what I meant by saying that some of the simplified Chinese information is fabricated.

[george trotter]

Yes, always check the data.