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Is this a good buy?

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Bridges Community Regular

Bridges

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https://www.legacy-collectibles.com/edged-weapons/102622-26.html

 

I really like this Naval officer type tachi that is, for whatever reason labeled a NCO 98. The blade is signed but damaged…my question is, will this damage on side of the blade and on the top adversely affect the structure? The “strike marks” on the side look like they can polish out. The blade looks nihonto to me but I’m new to this. The tsuba is not right for this sword type. Considering the damage, incorrect fittings and type, is this a fair buy?

ROKUJURO Grand Master

ROKUJURO

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Noah,

my impression is that this is similar to a Naval sword with a stainless blade, so not traditionally made and no real HAMON. The strike marks (these are probably recent and not WW II) can probably be treated by an expert, but if you tried it yourself, the outcome might not look nice.

The SAYA looks repainted, the metal parts could be later replacements. Depending on what you like and collect, you have to decide! It is not a NIHONTO, I think.

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Bridges Community Regular

Bridges

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@Brian thanks Brian, I don’t know if you saw my other post on Simpson LTD but man, both Simpson and Legacy are rocks in the WWII community I’m stunned this stuff is on their website. Makes me wonder about the higher end NCO 98 that Legacy has with COA for 1800…

Bridges Community Regular

Bridges

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@ROKUJUROthanks! I started with parade swords and I’ve bought several that I will post next week. Now I have arrived at type 98s and other WW2 Katanas carried by the Japanese. Finding one at the right price point is the catch lol but in short, my collection will be strictly limited to 20th century Japanese Military blades

John C Veteran

John C

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Noah:

I think this could be a hybrid of an actual Toyokawa blade with souvenir fittings. I say that because the nakago has not been snipped off they way all of the souvenir blades have been so far. Look at the nakago in the document referenced by Chris and you'll see what I mean. The souvenir blades were made in the same factory, hence the same stamp.

John C.

Bridges Community Regular

Bridges

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@John C with that said, I could possibly restore it I’m just greatly concerned of the marks on the swords spine that the seller describes as the sword being used as a hammer at some point. That spine is the “soft “ side correct? The possibility of Internal damage turns me off

John C Veteran

John C

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Certainly any damage to a blade can affect its structure and usability. Machine made blades, however, were more consistent in their structure than a purely hand forged blade. In addition, damage to the softer spine would not be considered a fatal flaw unless a small hairline crack developed. I think the real question would be is it worth restoring? I think probably not. For that price you can find a decent example that was not used as a hammer. 

Try to be patient. Good swords are out there. 

As for it being a souvenir sword, there is nothing wrong with that. It's just not a war time sword or a nihonto. Depends on what your collecting goals are.

John C.

Bridges Community Regular

Bridges

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@John C you’re right, I just need to be patient. Part of me is just worried wartime NCO blades will be going up in valley past the point of my budget due to military surplus being just about totally dried up. The whole milsurp market is on a bull rush

PNSSHOGUN Grand Master

PNSSHOGUN

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Hi Noah, you seem to be in a mild state of hysteria at every potential flaw or issuewith a sword. For your own sanity please read through those reference books and really familiarise yourself with what good quality Japanese military swords are and aim to save up for one. It is all too easy to get carried away at the start of collecting and end up with a bunch of crap. This is hard fought experience most of us have gone through and don't want to see you discouraged after loading up on dud swords full of problems before you can really enjoy what a nice Gunto can bring to the table. 

 

Have a look through this thread for some inspiration: 

 

 

 

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Bridges Community Regular

Bridges

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@PNSSHOGUN my resources are coming in tomorrow. Relying pretty heavily on Ohmura study and you all. I’ve got my eyes on a type 94 I believe which I’ll link here.

https://www.therupturedduck.com/collections/edged-blades/products/Japanese-samurai-sword-still-available-1?variant=40339782172745

but it has a bohi which I thought was associated with only Chinese blades? This is a nice example I’d like to purchase but I’m still very critical of authenticity as my budget is limited 

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Bruce Pennington Grand Master

Bruce Pennington

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Noah,

Kudos for your ongoing study.  Ohmura is a fabulous site for studying the real thing.

 

I've written to Legacy informing them about the souvenir sword.   Hopefully they'll take the correction in good faith.

 

If you've finished the NLF Gunto article, you already know, but for future readers, I'll summarize - the metal fittings are Army, but gold-gilded like Navy.  The rounded tsuba is similar to Navy, but is distinctly different than a true kaigunto tsuba.  The black saya and ito, with the gold-gilding gives the outward appearance of a Navy kaigunto, but like the guys at Legacy recognized, the metal fittings are all Army!  They apparently intentionally made a mish-mash of Army and Navy fittings so that this sword would qualify to military officials as a souvenir, not a war trophy.  Some of the blades seem to be legit, Navy blades made for WWII, but were probably sitting in an arsenal awaiting fittings when the war ended.  Some were clearly made by Tenshozan after the war for the souvenir contract.  I own one, and honor these swords for what they are - the final Japanese sword made due to war.  I honestly don't know if modern Japanese officers carry swords today, but these were the "period" in the last sentence of the history of Japanese war sword from the beginning of time to the end of WWII.

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waljamada Mentor

waljamada

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Bridges,

 

Those "souvenir" swords show up semi-consistently.  They are authentic period pieces but tend to have a bit less interest in the general military collecting field that have some "know". 

 

For the price of the piece on the duck website you can for sure find, with some patience, a type 98 showato.  It wont be perfect.  The blade on the duck website looks to me like an arsenal NCO blade in the gunto mounts.  I recognize it via the bohi (which are also on Japanese blades), shape and kissaki but the photos aren't great so I could be wrong. 

 

I respect and understand the gusto as I've been through it.  Also couldn't hurt to post what you'd like to find and your price range on the "Wanted to Buy" section if you haven't already.  

 

Tried to hunt some things:

 

https://stcroixblades.com/shop/products/Japanese-model-1889-naval-prison-shore-patrol-sword-anchor-marked-rare-navy/

 

No idea about this seller:

 https://www.bowlinggreendrummer.com/Japanese-officer-s-wwii-katana-sword-scb-signed

 

Komonjo but still:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/134359224972?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=i-cU9RKGRia&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=_371BgsbQ6q&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

 

Like I mentioned...gonna really help you if to have patience and wait for the right piece to come across you.

 

Brian

Brian

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Forget those post war assembled swords. They are never going to be desirable. Not worth collecting over many of the other options.
You'll easily find a decent Shin Gunto in our For Sale section at a decent price. Forget all these militaria sites, the deals are right here.

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Bridges Community Regular

Bridges

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@waljamada the bowling green drummer seems to be a good deal but the website is absolutely archaic. I’ll check out the NMB for sale section! A flaw of mine is putting stuff on layaway and paying it off in a month. I’ll have to save up my patience and coin and hit the NMB section in January!

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John C Veteran

John C

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Notice the line of damage along the entire edge of the saya? I have noticed this on at least 3 or 4 souvenir swords. Seems to be another tell-tale sign.

 

John C.

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Bruce Pennington Grand Master

Bruce Pennington

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3 hours ago, Bridges said:

@Bruce Penningtonhey Bruce, just wanted to let you know in my conquest of finding Japanese edged military online, I stumbled across this, yet again! It seems they took your advice, yes, this is legacy collectibles on gunbroker. They have removed this from their formal website and placed it at auction 

 

https://www.gunbroker.com/Item/961218484

Well. I am underwhelmed. Via email they thanked me for my great article. But it is clear from the auction title that they have no intention of correcting their labeling problem.

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Brian

Brian

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Gunbroker can get stuffed.
I used to spend money there, and our company was going to spend a great deal there for export. But recently they signed up for Cloudflare (nothing wrong) but they have banned the entire South Africa IP block.
SA is one of the last firearm friendly countries, and a lot of customers are from here. They have full control over who they block. When I emailed support, they basically blew me off.
I am not going to install and pay for a vpn just so I can spend money with their listings.
Get bent, Gunbroker. Will be advising the big dealers there too, why they are losing sales.

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