Photo play

[kissakai]

Hi

A couple of times a year I try to photograph a blade and always pretty rubbish

I'm trying a ring flash and wondered if you see these as good or bad images

Can they tell you anything about this tanto?

I've seen some very impressive blade set ups but I just have the basic stuff

I'm not looking for a school or maker just if they are useful as a record of this tanto

You can be as hard as you like as I have a thick skin

 

 

 

[John C]

  On 12/5/2022 at 12:30 PM, kissakai said:

Can they tell you anything about this tanto?

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Yes. It's telling me it wants to be in my collection.

In all seriousness, it looks as if the grain becomes more pronounced between the soft and hard metals depending on the light. For example, in the first picture on the left the grain is highlighted in the hard steel, whereas on the right it is highlighted in the mild steel. So I guess both are useful?

John C.

[ROKUJURO]

Some of the photos are not well focused. If you had the camera on a stand (and can exclude any vibrations) I think it will be much better

[AlphaRaider]

Ive done photography professionally since roughly 2008, not for sword photography but I do like taking pictures of them.

I went to the Art Institute of Colorado for a BA in photography and specialized in shooting highly reflective items in a studio setting. My main business deals with portraiture and still life.

 

For this kind of work ring lights are a no no,  they will cast peaks on the swords due to the rows of led's. It will also depending on the size not cover enough area to properly illuminate the sword as you need angles. They work wonders for many things but not swords. I routinely use a 19 inch ring light from savage for photography of firearms and such but swords are a different beast.

 

For smaller items I would highly recommend a light box. I prefer to use a 3x3 size as it fits most objects easily. It produces even light and reduces chances of reflecting on shiny surfaces.

 

I use strobe lights and a mirrorless dlsr for studio work but if you have a light box you could get away with even Home Depot work lights on the outside.

 

Please feel free to ask anything regarding pictures and I will help you as best as possible. Photography can be challenging without support, keep in mind I'm not a nihonto photographer by trade just someone who recently stated taking pictures of my own swords. ( some of them are down right amazing )

 

J. Hoff

 

- the picture below is inside a 3x3 light box with two 400w strobe lights on the left and right, some times I use up to six lights. With a front cover on and only the lens poking through its quite easy to reduce reflections. This image I didn't have the front cover on so you see a bit of light hitting the blade on the top left.  Looking at angles and blade position is your key. I haven't found a page showing good sword photography how to's yet sadly. Im sure the major guys have cool set ups but also are heavy relying on photoshop which my image has none.

 

[AlphaRaider]

What type of camera are you using? Is it a phone or a digital camera?

 

You may want to try manual focusing if its a dslr type, auto focus sometimes has a hard time catching details on shiny surfaces. You may also be too close to properly focus on your subject. Normally you want a taco lens for anything close up like your showing.

Two of the images you took were actually pretty clear in a few spots. Shooting straight on will get you the best plane of field in relation to keeping an image in focus. Some of the pictures you took look like a pretty high angle so only a small portion will be in focus.  

 

If you decide to play with the right light I'd try from the side of the blade and I would put a white or semi translucent paper over it to defuse the light and get rid of the led strips.  Christmas gift paper or even a pillow case cut in half should work in a pinch.  to get parts of the blade black you can use a flag or something black to limit light to that portion. 

 

I'd post a few additional images when you get a chance and let us know what kind of setup you are using.

 

J. Hoff

 

 

[kissakai]

I use a Canon EOS7000 with (usually) 18 - 55 Canon lens

I only have three blades so I wouldn't buy a large light tent of extra lighting

I'm just trying to get the best images using what I've already have

I'm taking notes from this post and I'll keep trying but not with a ring light!

I have a small light tent with two lights which I use for photographing my tsuba

[PNSSHOGUN]

Jonathon, many of us would sincerely appreciate an in-depth guide of equipment, techniques and other small idiosyncrasies that you have noted from photographing swords and other blades.

[Sutraken]

Hello Grev, 

 

the first picture that you have posted resembles a typical boshi for a blade of the Kiyomaro mon. I am relatively sure, that your tanto was made long before the shinshinto era, but the activities of the shown boshi are also present in the boshi of the above mentioned school and are a kantei point for Kiyomaro and his lineage. 

 

All the best 

 

[kissakai]

Hi Stefan

When posted before and people seeing it in hand their comments are below

 

Mumei. Possibly Mito/Owari Shin-shinto. 

The hada is of itame and Mokume type. The hamon is a shallow midare/gunome in nioi deki.

There is some evidence of activity such as sunagashi. It looks a bit like masame hada inside the hamon running through the hamon.

The boshi is sugu and narrow. There is no kaeri evident. The nakago appears to be ubu and it is short and slightly funa-gata in appearance and ends in a ha-agari kurijiri. 
 

The polisher said that's it is a nice Tanto with  lots of activity, the hamon at the kissaki is really unusual

[Sutraken]

Hi Grev, 

 

the kantei point mentioned above deals with Kiyomaro‘s intend to replicate the boshi of O Sa or O Shizu. Similar traits are also present in the works of his pupils. Does your tanto show some inazuma like effect at the border of the hamon, or slightly inside the hamon ? 

 

Kind regards 

Stefan

[kissakai]

I'm not sure if I see inazumi. There is some indication of a 'line' in the hamon but that may be wishful thinking

I'll try and take a better picture of the hamon

 

[kissakai]

Just tried a couple more but not too dissimilar from the previous set

 

 

 

[Sutraken]

I think  you should submit your tanto to a nbthk shinsa. Although a mumei shinshinto blade can only get a hozon certificate, the result could be a very positive surprise. 

[Franco]

  On 12/7/2022 at 4:54 PM, kissakai said:

I'm not sure if I see inazumi. There is some indication of a 'line' in the hamon but that may be wishful thinking

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inazuma (稲妻) – Lit. “lightning.” Crooked kinsuji which resembles a bolt of lightning.

Scroll down article to view image posted; https://markussesko.com/2015/05/29/kantei-3-hamon-boshi-1/   

 

 

[AlphaRaider]

  On 12/7/2022 at 9:26 AM, PNSSHOGUN said:

Jonathon, many of us would sincerely appreciate an in-depth guide of equipment, techniques and other small idiosyncrasies that you have noted from photographing swords and other blades.

Expand  

 Sure, I can do my best help out with that.  Im very new to photographing sword in all honestly, I never tried until I got a few myself.

 

I have works with a lot of high end knifes before and highly reflective items like glass and shiny things.  

 

I have a show Im attending this weekend but I can probably work on typing out some things that could help people.

 

---

 

TO the OP.   the ring light will be ok for close up images but it doesn't work as well from further away unless the ring itself is bigger then the object.  sounds like you have a light box which is good. they are quite helpful.  

 

One thing I've noticed is that most sword images I've seen have had black backgrounds and I'm guessing that's a contrast thing plus nailing a consistent white background can be a pain in the butt in all honesty with out getting in photoshop.

 

It sounds like it's a good camera, I normally shoot Nikon for digital but love my canon film camera   I will look into that model and see what the specs are.  I hate to tell people to get one thing vs another because we all have different budgets and photography is art so who am I to cruise hopes and dreams.

 

I do have a video I posted from a. while back that was from when I was doing a watch video for seiko I think.  ill find a link and post it.  I believe I was using constant lights for that video but gives you an idea of how the light box works.

 

there is a lol of small things pertaining to photography but let me think about what I currently know and apply to photographing items and what ive noticed with swords as well and I think that I can get some good tips and suggesting for you all.

 

If you have any specific related questions feel free to ask and I will do my best to answer them in a easy to understand way. Im now following this thread so ill be able to keep up with posts made on here now.

 

J. Hoff

 

 

 

 

[AlphaRaider]

 

This was setup for filming a watch, I perhaps can make something for taking pictures with swords like I did this. this video is like 2 yrs old now how time flys.

 

I use completely different gear for pictures but constant lights can be used for pictures swell.  I think if people like the idea of white background this will work perfect for them, shooting with a black background is a bit different, however you could shoot on either if your photshotp skills are decent.

 

J. Hoff 

 

 

[PNSSHOGUN]

A video would be great, the one above was was very easy to follow and interesting.

[AlphaRaider]

I have this Monday off so I will get a video filmed on how I'm taking pictures of the swords. I have.  I've been swamped the past week with work. After this weekends show I'm off for 4 weeks so I'll be able to get some things written down and a video posted.  I'll try to get a screen capture of how I process the images as well.  Thanks for being patient 🙏 

[sabiji]

Hi Grev,

do you have a picture of the whole Sugata and the Nakago somewhere?
I can not see conclusively that the dagger should be Shinshinto. It shows Mino and Soshu characteristics, but there are hardly any Nie (except in the Boshi), so I tend to think more Mino influence.
The Boshi clearly shows a pronounced Kaeri, and even Muneyaki seems to be present.
I don't believe Kiyomaro school, because they were Nie fetishists and the steel seems clearer with them.

[kissakai]

Hi sabiji

There you go

 

 

 

[sabiji]

Thanks Grev,
it is as always remote diagnostic, so please do not put my words on the gold scale.

 

But I do not feel that the tanto is Shinshinto. Even with magnification I can't make out any yasurime, the ha machi is not particularly pronounced.

 

Surely in the Shinshinto again tanto were produced with pleasure in all variations and styles, but Mino-Den was hardly in fashion in that time. And even if a Soshu-Mino mix in the style of Shizu could have been attempted here, as it was done in later Shinshinto the Naotane or Kiyomaro school with pleasure, I simply lack the necessary Nie, because one wanted to copy consciously to the old masters.

 

To my mind, this is a utility dagger from the late Koto and early Edo period - from that time when many Mino blacksmiths sought a new sphere of activity in the many newly created fiefdoms throughout Japan. Or simply stayed in Mino...;-)

[kissakai]

Thanks Thomas

I build up more of picture as a whole and somewhere are some truths

Maybe worth Shinsa so I'll look into it.

Unfortunately Paul Martin hasn't visited the UK for a few years

 

[Sutraken]

Hello Grev, 

 

the pictures you have posted recently can‘t give us here sufficient hints for a solid judgment about your tanto. I think you should show the blade to some members of the token society for a better evaluation. The other option for a definite answer is a shinsa in Japan, as you know. 

 

Kind regards 

[Bazza]

  On 12/7/2022 at 4:54 PM, kissakai said:

I'm not sure if I see inazumi. There is some indication of a 'line' in the hamon but that may be wishful thinking

I'll try and take a better picture of the hamon

 

Expand  

Methinks nijuba.  Inazuma  means 'lighning' and in my recollection is blackish and zigzags from yakiba to jigane and back and forth.

 

BaZZa.

[Brano]

I'm not a professional photographer, but I enjoy photographing blades
In my opinion - without a tripod, a camera that allows full manual focus, it will be very difficult to take a good photo of the blade
The remote control is also beneficial for preventing camera shake when you press the shutter button
I have several lenses, but I definitely get the best results with Macro lenses
Well - and finally - without the sensitive use of Photoshop it is also almost impossible
Just my opinion

[kissakai]

They are very nice images

What do you use as a background

[Brano]

Black or gray fabric with minimum reflection
You also need a dark room - I always shoot after dark

 

[Rivkin]

Ogh, these are major blades. and really good images.

[francois2605]

Brano, those pictures are gorgeous. You really nailed it

[vajo]

Brano perfect!