Need help with Omote Mei signature on wakizashi!

[AnthonyDF]

Hello!

 

I am newer here but I have seen a lot of you have a lot of knowledge and I was hoping someone could help out. I recently bought a Wakizashi from Japan, and I believe it is a Edo Period Wakizashi, the only problem is with the Mei on the tang, even though there is one I cannot find out anything about the smith, or even a rough idea of when the sword was made using the smith as a point of reference. The smiths Mei is -上野守包宗- Or as I have tried to translate it Kozuke no kami kanemune. I have searched high and low but have only found kanemunes which don't use that signature, at least in that form. I sadly don't have pictures ATM as the wakizashi is still being processed in Japan at the time of this posting. I can update with pictures if needed, when possible. I appreciate any and all help if anyone can point me somewhere it'd be really helpful

 

Thank you all

Anthony

[Brian]

People are going to want to see the tang first to check the translation.

[Geraint]

Dear Anthony.

 

Yes please, more pictures.  However have a look here, http://www.sho-shin.com/titles.htm

 

You will have to scroll right to the bottom of the left hand column but...............

 

All the best.

[AnthonyDF]

Hello

 

I messaged the seller of the wakizashi and was able to acquire a picture of the tang. Sadly it was the only one he sent but it does show the signature quite well, hopefully it helps with verifying it. I can try to get more pictures as well if that helps any.

 

Thanks

Anthony

 

Tang is on the attachment in this post

[Mark]

you have it right. M Sesko index says he worked 1660-73.  Not sure if the signature is genuine.  A old friend of mine used to say "any sword coming here from Japan comes with the best paper it will ever get", not 100% accurate but in general it is easy to get a blade papered in Japan and papers are valued here so it makes sense.  If you are buying it from a Japanese dealer or someone in Japan i would think they are the ones to ask questions of, they have the sword and know it.  But i/we are happy to help if we can

 

I am glad you are interested in swords, and it looks like you are new here so welcome.  I see you are in WI  you should plan to come to the Chicago sword show next year, you can see and handle thousands or swords and if you like one take it home with you. It is a great way to learn and compare.   (caveat -- i promote the show so an partial)

[Nobody]

Maybe this one, 

Ref. Katana Japanese Sword Antique Wakizashi Shirasaya 上野守包宗 Kanemune Japan 1106B | eBay

 

[AnthonyDF]

 Hello

 

I shouldve mentioned it before but forgot to, it is one the Nobody referenced in the latest comment on this post from the ebay listing. I wasnt sure about the rules regarding links and things so I went with the option which I felt was safer and didnt mention where I got it or link to the seller/listing. Nobody I thank you for putting in some of the images from the listing as I was not sure if I was allowed as some groups are weird and sometimes dont allow it, fourm groups can be weird at times. I did translate some of the license that is with the wakizashi dating the license registration to 1962. Again sorry for leaving some stuff out, im new here and wasnt sure what was or wasnt allowed...

 

Thank you all so much

 

[AnthonyDF]

Hello

 

I would like to update on this fourm post for anyone following it or who have replied to it originally. I have since messaged the seller and he has replied to my question regarding the signature and this was his reply "The smith is known to be a person who made deffent swords such as naginata, etc.
There is a record that he was popular in late Edo era, but this sword was registered in Showa. It migth haev been left in kura (warehouse) during that time." Sadly it seems there is still a rabbit hole to dive into as Sho-Shin, or M Sesko index mentions he worked in earlier Edo Period but the seller mentions him working and being popular in late Edo. About 200 years apart from both time periods mentioned. Maybe he worked and smithed in early Edo but didnt see popularity until late. Again its a rabbit hole, but I wanted to update everyone who has helped so far and who might help at a later date. Hopefully we can date this Wakizashi and give the smith the credit and recognition he deserves. 

 

Thanks

 

Anthony

[SteveM]

I wouldn't pay too much attention to what the seller says. The Sesko index is pretty authoritative.

 

The registration system was devised after WW2, and all traditionally-made swords are required to be registered with the local authorities. So all old swords in Japan have this kind of registration card. Its not a guarantee of authenticity, but some collectors like to see it. Ever since sometime in the 2000s, any sword exported out of Japan needed to have the registration card returned to the issuing Board of Education (and in its place an export permit is issued).  

 

To validate whether or not the signature is real (i.e. not a forgery), you would need to send it to Japan for authentication. But this is a bit of an expense and a time drain, and may not be worth the effort. If the sword is still in Japan, you can get an agent to submit it on your behalf. 

[Nobody]

9 hours ago, AnthonyDF said:

............................................................

.............................. Sadly it seems there is still a rabbit hole to dive into as Sho-Shin, or M Sesko index mentions he worked in earlier Edo Period but the seller mentions him working and being popular in late Edo. About 200 years apart from both time periods mentioned. Maybe he worked and smithed in early Edo but didnt see popularity until late.   .............................................

 

 

There were at least two smiths with the same name Kanemune (上野守菅原包宗 - Kozuke no kami Sugawara Kanemune).

One Kanemune lived around Kanbun era (1661-1673), and the other one lived around Koka era (1844-1848).

[AnthonyDF]

So we tracked down two different Kanemune named smiths. So is there anyway I could tell the era of the blade by characteristics? So maybe I could pin point the right smith. Hamon, tang, kissaki, anything that is common in different eras such as shape or other defining features in a blade? Im still new at this and this is only the 3rd Japanese blade I own, first handmade nihonto, so my knowledge is far behind compared to most of you. I still sadly dont have the blade in hand so Ill have to refer to the pictures from the EBay listing as reference to and blade characteristics. I can also add more to this fourm post aswell if need be.