Tsuba "Rust" video - for beginners.

[Spartancrest]

 

[ROKUJURO]

Dale,

Because of the many wrong information I would not recommend this for beginners.

[Spartancrest]

Jean, I am not endorsing it - yes there are numerous mistakes and it is confusing  "rust is bad, rust is good".

No distinction between the different types. Perhaps these things are explained better in succeeding videos? [I am not interested enough to subscribe.]

Anyway it might spur better discussion on the subject. Who knows, he might be fresh from a Tsuba no Kenkyū degree? 

 

[kissakai]

I'd like to see a vid of someone using a horn or similar to de-rust. My friend had a lump of copper he would place on the gas ring to heat up a tsuba (iron) then pick of the rust

 

[ROKUJURO]

Grev,

that is not a recommended method as it would surely damage the patina. Heat is always a brutal treatment!

Removing rust is done with a pointed piece of antler, bone, or ivory. You don't use a horn, in this context "horn" is just the material.

If you don't have a source for antler pieces, I can send you some for free.

[b.hennick]

The ivory from old piano keys work well. 

[Spartancrest]

As does boiled bone [obviously when dry- ]  About the size of a pencil.

[Dan tsuba]

Hello all!

 

Now, after looking at the “tsuba rust” video again the young man states something like “you will understand why rust can protect tsuba”.  Maybe that is something he will show in his next video?

 

So, there I was, minding my own business not looking for anything!  I was researching some tsuba information and came upon this statement:

 

found on page 40 of "Japanese Sword-Mounts"-

 

“Contemporaneous, if not of earlier date, are the tsuba reproduced in Plates V and VI. They are of iron and covered with a patina of fine smoothness. While age has undoubtedly done much to produce this "skin," it is more than likely that one of the several methods known as sabi-dashikata ("rust-summoning process") was applied to some of these tsuba. The old iron workers had recipes for producing patina, which they guarded with great secrecy and kept among their hiden ("secret processes") handed down from generation to generation. Some of these methods have been outlined in published accounts, but almost all serious searchers after authentic information on tsuba agree that these same accounts are intended to deceive rather than instruct. The one quoted by F. Brinkley 1 is typical and full of quaint fancies. Once the patina has become scratched or rubbed, the tsuba loses much of its value ; for it is the color and "feel" of the iron, as well as the handling and design, which combine to make the artistic appeal of these tsuba. It is very difficult to restore a patina that has become harmed. From a personal letter of Joly, who spent much of his time on the study of Japanese sword-mounts, and who left the most valuable information which we have concerning them, is quoted the following paragraph: — , "The problem of patinating iron and Japanese alloys is far from simple ; I have worked at it for more years than I care to remember, and have collected many recipes, some of which do work. — In years gone by I can still remember a dozen or so bottles of pickling solutions gathering dust on the shelves of my laboratory, some of which worked on shakudo, others on shibuichi, which one day were all turned into a larger bottle, and the resulting mess, the composition of which is wholly unknown, does patinate anything it is applied to. — Thank goodness I have enough of it to last as long as I shall, unless the bottle gets broken !"

The "resulting mess" was never analyzed, and unfortunately Mr. Joly's valuable researches were brought to a close by his premature death in 1920.”

 

The above information was found in “Japanese Sword Mounts in the Collections of Field Museum”, by Helen Cowen Gunsaulus - first published in 1923.

 

A downloadable copy can be found at the below link-

https://archive.org/details/japaneseswordmou16guns/page/40/mode/1up

 

So, I was thinking what the above stated “rust-summoning process” was (and if that was what the young man in the “rust” video was alluding to?)

Well, more research led to finding out that there is a rusting process called “flash rusting”.  The resource I found the information in is listed below, and it was written in 2014.

 

https://www.canada.ca/en/conservation-institute/services/training-learning/in-person-workshops/understanding-flash-rusting.html

 

The specific section is “Immersion of carbon steel coupon in tap water”.  Although there are interesting areas for study in other parts of the article.

I have included the specific section of the article below- (I couldn't download the pictures associated with the article - so if you want to see the pictures just click on the above link!)

 

“Immersion of carbon steel coupon in tap water

 

When a carbon steel coupon is first immersed in tap water, the surface is bright and shiny, as shown in Figure 10. Before immersion, this coupon had been cleaned with acetone, then abraded with 220 grit sandpaper. Within 5 minutes, there is evidence of corrosion as orange rust starts to form. Figure 11 shows the surface after it has been immersed for 30 minutes in tap water. The surface of the coupon gradually becomes more orange over the next few hours. Figure 12 shows the carbon steel coupon after 5 hours of immersion.”

 

 

© Government of Canada, Canadian Conservation Institute. CCI 127992-0014
Figure 10. A carbon steel coupon just after it has been immersed in tap water.

 

 

© Government of Canada, Canadian Conservation Institute. CCI 127992-0016
Figure 11. A carbon steel coupon 30 minutes after it has been immersed in tap water.

 

 

© Government of Canada, Canadian Conservation Institute. CCI 127992-0017
Figure 12. A carbon steel coupon 5 hours after it has been immersed in tap water.

After several days, the surface of the coupon becomes bright orange. Figure 13 shows the carbon steel coupon after 72 hours (3 days) of immersion in tap water. When the coupon is removed from the solution and the orange residue wiped off, the surface beneath should be darkened, as shown in Figure 14.

 

 

© Government of Canada, Canadian Conservation Institute. CCI 127992-0019
Figure 13. A carbon steel coupon 72 hours (3 days) after it has been immersed in tap water.

 

 

© Government of Canada, Canadian Conservation Institute. CCI 127992-0020
Figure 14. The carbon steel coupon after the orange corrosion has been gently wiped off. The underlying surface has darkened in areas.

 

 

So, in summary, is it possible that “flash rusting” was used in the patina process, and also to protect the tsuba from further rusting?

 

I don’t know, just some more interesting research in the quest for tsuba knowledge!

 

The adventure continues!

 

With respect,

Dan

 

 

 

 

 

 

[1kinko]

Eitoku Sugimori (2004), Jim Kelso (2009), and Ford (2015) have presented formuli for sabitsuke patinas.

[Dan tsuba]

Hello all,

 

Thanks Darrel, for the information in your post!

 

I researched the sabitsuke patinas and what that means.

 

I found the below website that shows the sabitsuke technique (controlled rusting) for a tsuba-

 

http://www.jimkelso.com/tutorials/ironpatina.htm

 

Very interesting!

 

With respect,

Dan

 

[OceanoNox]

It is in Japanese, but there is a very comprehensive book called "Techniques of colouring for goldsmith" (金工の着色技法) by Nagano (長野　裕) and Io (井尾　建二), published in 1998. It is extremely comprehensive, and gives nice tables with the various mixtures and how changing ingredients can change the colours. It also covers colouring by inlay or surface soldering (as far as I remember).

If I remember correctly, for iron, they proposed to rust the piece a bit and then remove all the rust in acid, to finally rust it completely (I supposed to have a weathered or stony appearance).

There was also a program (this month actually) on NHK called "刀剣 Lovers 入門", and one of the segment was about iron tsuba making, which might be available for viewing on the NHK website.

In the end, the idea is to get uniform rust, so the piece is either heated and dipped in a liquid to instantly rust everything, or covered in some mixture and left to rust.

 

 

Arnaud

[Dan tsuba]

Hello Arnaud!

 

And welcome to this super great forum!

 

Thanks for all the valuable information and resources on "Techniques of colouring for goldsmith"  and "tsuba making" and where to find them.

Very much appreciated!

 

With respect,

Dan

[ROKUJURO]

Patina on iron has been analyzed in numerous publications, and Ford has informed us here on NMB in the past about its importance in connection with TSUBA.

In general, black iron oxide (Fe2O3 x FeO) is considered stable under certain conditions (and can stop further corrosion) while red iron oxide (Fe2O3) should be avoided or stopped. If the patina layer is thick enough, a well treated iron TSUBA may keep its nice appearance for a very long time. 

[1kinko]

Here’s a post concerning removing rust while preserving at least gold.  This guy (Robert Lisafali)  also has posts on this web site concerning removing verdigris from shakudo. A little short on details but he uses a nonionic neutral pH organic mixture marketed as Vulpex. He’s apparently a restorer at the Samurai Museum in Berlln,  The website name is Projects Step by Step-Katana Forum in case this link doesn’t work. 

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/228715987959510/permalink/965957644235337/