Unusual top seppa Pattern 1 copper Type 95

[robinalexander]

I've been looking at seppa for the Pat. 1 copper Type 95 and saw this one (sold) from Antique Swords in UK.

 

https://www.antique-swords.com/v04-ww2-Japanese-type-95-copper-hilted-army-ncos-sword.html

 

Its interesting that it has exactly the same larger seppa on top and bottom ...being a holed version to accommodate retention clip/chuso. All others I have seen, in my limited experience, have had a smaller matching seppa on top and larger 'holed' seppa on bottom.

 

Has anyone seen or own one similar to this?

 

Rob

[Kiipu]

Me thinks Rob has good eyes!  The seppa on 4735東 are reversed in the photographs above and one seppa is small and the other is large.  As this sword was reworked at some point in time, the reversal could have happened at this time.  However, at a later date someone corrected the order and the small seppa 小切羽 was moved to the back of the crossguard while the large seppa 大切羽 was moved to the front of the crossguard.

Copper type 95 sword knot: Real or replica?

[robinalexander]

Thanks Thomas @Kiipuso just to be clear in my mind (forgetting the above pics for a moment) you are saying that the correct standard for a 95 regardless of the Pattern, is a small seppa above and a larger seppa with hole below?

 

 

[Kiipu]

The large seppa 大切羽 is between the scabbard 𩋡 and crossguard 鍔.  The small seppa 小切羽 is between the crossguard 鍔 and ferrule 柄環.  The reason for the large seppa is that it butts up against the scabbard and needs to make full contact with it.  If you use the small seppa, it will leave a gap where the latch 駐爪 passes through.  This is the arrangement used on the Patterns 1 & 2.  As for the other patterns, I will let someone else comment on that.

[robinalexander]

Yep thanks Thomas, got all that and totally agree. Large seppa under tsuba and small seppa on top of tsuba (touching fuchi)

 

However, I am still a little confused, or missing something about those pictures (above) which appear to show a copper 95 with a large seppa/with hole on the top and and another identical on the other side of the tsuba...i.e. there is no small seppa on that particular sword.  As it was advertised for sale using those pictures, they would have been taken at the same time without any disassembly. 

 

Just saying that that is weird. 

 

 

[Stegel]

Rob,

Those pictures are from the old UK dealers site found in his archives here  (from 2019).

If you look carefully you will see that there is one of each seppa (not two large ones) and they are fitted incorrectly.

 

Just recently this sword showed up again here on our very own NMB.

 

Not sure of the swords life between these few years but the seppa are now reversed and in the original configuration with the larger one facing the scabbard.

 

Hope this helps.

[robinalexander]

Ahhhhh..tks Ernie (and again, Thomas) ... yes, full bottle now.

 

 

[Kiipu]

The picture is kinda deceiving from the UK auction site as it does look like a large seppa.  However, I learned from Stegel to download all the pictures for future reference. (For you old buzzards, right click on the picture and a menu will appear with the "Save Image As..." option.)  When the image was enlarged, a small seppa was clearly visible.

 

18 hours ago, robinalexander said:

Has anyone seen or own one similar to this?

 

Going back to your original question, several "copper" handled swords have the small & large seppa reversed.  In every case, they were either reworked or tampered with.  For example, Detective Chief Inspector Stegel unearthed this copper that was "enhanced" for resale.  Note the seppa position in the first photograph.

copper-handle NCO sword questions, Post #18

 

FYI, this was not something I was aware of until you brought it up.

[robinalexander]

5 hours ago, Kiipu said:

Note the seppa position in the first photograph.

Nice one Thomas .... cleared up a few things in that lot.

 

Picture as per Thomas' comment above, for posterity

[Bruce Pennington]

Not to hijack this thread, but I did some recon on my copper and it's got some oddities in this respect.  #2643 but the saya throat is un-numbered, so I assumed from the beginning it was a factory repair/re-fit.  After taking it apart, I could see that it had been repaired and re-fitted.

 

The nakago was pretty gnarly and there was an extra large seppa on the front (hadn't noticed that previously!)

 

It all fits together well, though the tsuka is tight coming on and off.  No wiggle in the tsuka/tsuba/seppa fit.  There is a good space from the latch clip to the saya throat, but I don't know if that is normal.  @Stegel or @Shamsy might know.

 

And for anyone tracking such things, it's marked with the TO inspector stamp:

[robinalexander]

Wow Bruce...bet that was a surprise.

 

Two large seppa  ..... do you think they are a pair?  That is, one slightly smaller than the other so the rims compliment each other?

 

Rob

 

[Shamsy]

Not always perfect fits, @Bruce Pennington (especially later on), but the latch should actually be flush to the hole in the saya throat. You obviously didn't find a slip of paper with any details of the arsenal refurbish/repairs (I assume you'd have told us). Bit weird, not sure what to make of that. 

[Bruce Pennington]

6 hours ago, robinalexander said:

one slightly smaller than the other so the rims compliment each other?

No, they are identical is size and shape.

 

3 hours ago, Shamsy said:

but the latch should actually be flush to the hole in the saya throat.

That's what I suspected.  So the re-work of the nakago must have shortened it, causing the clip to extend farther through the throat.  The added seppa tightened the tsuka/tsuba/seppa set to the habaki, but once tight, no more could be added to make the clip fit properly. 

 

And no documents about the re-work.  Wish they all came with prominence record sheets!

 

Edit: I just realized the reason for the clip extending too far could be that the clip itself is a replacement and slightly longer.

[Kiipu]

@Shamsy Probably not relevant to the above but the thickness of the large seppa was changed in 1938 when the crossguard was made thinner.

Short Development History of Type 95 Gunto, Post #91

 

@Bruce Pennington I assume the handguard is 11 millimeters (mm) thick and not 9 mm thick?

[Bruce Pennington]

6 hours ago, Kiipu said:

the handguard is 11 millimeters (mm) thick and not 9 mm thick?

11

[Shamsy]

Correct tsuba, then. That's a good sign.