New to swords - Type 98?

[Neolithic1]

I recently stuck my toe into the world of swords. I just bought one for my son as a Christmas gift. He has a small knife collection and I thought this might make a nice addition to that. I didn't know squat about swords and only know a little more now... based on what I have been able to learn with a few hours of on line study. And in the process of studying it I stumbled across this group. While I'm sure that he knows more than I do about swords, I'm sure that it will lead him to learn more as well.

 

Based on what I have viewed, I think this is a Type 98. The tsuka and other fittings appear to be similar to those of a Type 98. However, I've not found photos of a Saya like this one. Images don't seem to be plentiful, but I'm probably looking in the wrong places, but I thought I'd share some photos and see what people more experienced with swords might have to say.

 

Thanks for the opportunity to learn a little more.

[Bruce Pennington]

Frank, welcome!

 

Got a nice looking sword there!  Yes, Type 98 Officer sword, generally speaking.  You can see some examples on Ohmuras page:

Informal Fittings

 

The leather covered saya (scabbard) was made for field use.  However, we need to see the bare blade.  Do you know how to remove the tsuka (handle)?  This could be an older family or civil blade re-mounted for the war.  They are quite often fitted out this way.  In either case, there are a good many of us who get our addiction fixes by seeing these blades, who made them, and various other things to be learned from the nakago (tang).

 

It's easy to remove the handle.  There is a small bamboo peg just up from the handguard (tsuba).  Simply push/tap it out, and the whole handle, handguard, and spacers (seppa) slide off revealing the nakago.  Don't be worried about harming anything.  These swords are made for easy disassembly.

 

Your peg can be seen here.  This is probably the fatter end, and pushing it out should be tried from the other side.

[vajo]

Important: Push it from the smaller side. 

 

[Kiipu]

A dollar says it is a zōheitō 造兵刀 [arsenal sword].  @BANGBANGSAN, are you a gambling man!

[Bruce Pennington]

That’s my bet too!

[BANGBANGSAN]

4 hours ago, Kiipu said:

A dollar says it is a zōheitō 造兵刀 [arsenal sword].  @BANGBANGSAN, are you a gambling man!

It's possible a 造兵刀, but I'm not very sure about this one. The Kissaki looks more like 中切先 （Chu Kissaki ）  instead of 猪首切先（Ikubi Kissaki）to me.

[Bryce]

G'day Frank,

I hate to say this, but there are a number of things that look "off" about this sword. We really need to see some better photos of all the components to be sure of what it is.

Cheers,

Bryce

[Neolithic1]

The tang is unsigned.

 

Which components do you need to see better? Kissaki?

[Bruce Pennington]

Still want to see the tang. There’s a particular kind of sword called a zoheito, And we are wanting to see if this is one of them.

[Neolithic1]

[Bryce]

G'day Frank,

As Bruce said it is very important to see the nakago of the blade. Circled in red below are the things that make me pause. It may be that I am used to looking at high end examples and your example while not high end is still authentic, but it has enough unusual features that it needs a closer look. In summary, the kabutogane is unusual, the way the ito is tied is unusual, the chuso button is unusual, it is unusual to see a solid tsuba with a central chuso opening like this, the placement of the mekugi is unusual, the seppas don't fit together very well and the casting of the brass tsuba is very rough. 

Cheers,

Bryce

 

[Neolithic1]

1 hour ago, Bryce said:

G'day Frank,

As Bruce said it is very important to see the nakago of the blade. Circled in red below are the things that make me pause. It may be that I am used to looking at high end examples and your example while not high end is still authentic, but it has enough unusual features that it needs a closer look. In summary, the kabutogane is unusual, the way the ito is tied is unusual, the chuso button is unusual, it is unusual to see a solid tsuba with a central chuso opening like this, the placement of the mekugi is unusual, the seppas don't fit together very well and the casting of the brass tsuba is very rough. 

Cheers,

Bryce

 

Thanks for the feedback Bryce. Here are some photos of the areas that you circled...

[Bruce Pennington]

On 10/28/2022 at 6:02 PM, Neolithic1 said:

I've not found photos of a Saya like this one.

Starting with the saya, rest assured it's normal fare doe WWII. 

 

Thanks for adding the pics.   Bryce's concerns were understandable given the original set.  But with the close-ups, I have personally seen plenty with this style fittings.  The ito looks to have gotten loose and sagged a bit, too.

 

As to the blade, maybe Trystan or Thomas can comment.  I haven't really studied the zoheito.

[Bryce]

G'day Frank,

Thank you for posting the additional photos. My point with the ito is that most of the folds go the same way, rather than alternating as is normal. The kabutogane doesn't look to have any dimpling on the back edge which is very unusual. The blade is something different from the gendaito or showato ones you normally find. The nakago is pretty rough looking and the fact that it has two holes suggests it wasn't originally in this koshirae set. All in all it is a long way from the usual type 98 gunto. This doesn't necessarily mean it isn't a genuine world war 2 sword, but I don't have the expertise to distinguish it from an aged replica or fake. Hopefully someone else here does.

Cheers,

Bryce

[PNSSHOGUN]

Hard to tell, at the very least it wasn't made in Japan. At best made in occupied China during the war.

[Dave R]

 Overall it looks righteous and WWII in date. It has had at least one refit/remount, but the tang while not typical Japanese is not the usual butchered job we see on the Chinese occupation product. The Ito has been redone and is not the original job, the ito gets damaged in use, or abuse as someone goes in search of "the jewels" in the hilt!

 Factory made blade of some sort at a guess,.... remounted NCO?

Is the habaki copper or brass?

[Neolithic1]

It appears to be copper.