First post, first sword.. need a translation.

[75Corvette]

56 minutes ago, Toryu2020 said:

Jaime - the actual kanji character itself did not evolve - writing styles were well established by the Edo period with the exception of new fonts developed for the "printing press". However these were not employed on sword signatures so your choices are basically; block style, cursive and grass writing. Yumoto Sensei provides us with good examples in his book. A quick glance and you should be able to see and understand the differences...

 

-t

Makes more sense, as my previous research was into old pottery. 

[75Corvette]

1 hour ago, Toryu2020 said:

Jaime - the actual kanji character itself did not evolve - writing styles were well established by the Edo period with the exception of new fonts developed for the "printing press". However these were not employed on sword signatures so your choices are basically; block style, cursive and grass writing. Yumoto Sensei provides us with good examples in his book. A quick glance and you should be able to see and understand the differences...

 

-t

[75Corvette]

Just now, 75Corvette said:

These two "signatures" are allegedly from the same person.. though it is noted that "this" Kaneshige, is not the same Kaneshige.

Special feature:Kaneshige was a sword smith who flourished during the war in Chiba prefecture, but this Kaneshige is supposed to be a different person. This work has the same named Mei and in Navy Koshirae, but we judge this to be made by different Kaneshige.

   This is the question of writing styles.. 

is it normal to have such a difference in the Kanji markings from the "same" smith in the same year, on the same product? 
VR

Jamie

[Toryu2020]

Since you asked -

Yes - in a wartime setting, in a factory production line, we do not even know if the same guy signed this as the first, could have been a student, could have been a man employed just to cut signatures. Appreciating mei is a study in itself and is part of what makes the hobby exciting. Have fun!

 

-t

[75Corvette]

10 minutes ago, Toryu2020 said:

Since you asked -

Yes - in a wartime setting, in a factory production line, we do not even know if the same guy signed this as the first, could have been a student, could have been a man employed just to cut signatures. Appreciating mei is a study in itself and is part of what makes the hobby exciting. Have fun!

 

-t

Thank you... that helps a great deal!

R

Jamie

[Bruce Pennington]

7 hours ago, 75Corvette said:

Shows no sign of the leather covering.. just older than 1942 civilian fittings.. loosing its traditional sash wrap and hanger, for the single wartime clip mount.. The leather covers seem to fit the metal scabbards.. at least with the 4-5 I've examined.

The original fittings were not made for a leather cover.  The military, when retrofitting a civil sword, would place that metal haikan (belt loop hanger) on the civil saya and then cover it with leather.  The covers were custom fit to each saya.  You will see (I have seen) leather covers on EVERYTHING - Kyugunto, kaigunto, Type 19s, Type 95s, wakizashi, etc.  It's not restricted to any sort of sword or saya.  The metal haikan on yours would not have been used without the leather cover.  A good percentage of these covers go missing by the time we, as collectors, get the sword.  The leather gets worn and rotten during the war and falls off, or owners, post-war, screw around with them and lose them, who knows, but it is common to see the saya with the hanger but no leather, by today.

On a kyugunto (metal saya)

 

On a kaigunto (wooden saya) with 500 yr old family blade:

 

[75Corvette]

31 minutes ago, Bruce Pennington said:

The original fittings were not made for a leather cover.  The military, when retrofitting a civil sword, would place that metal haikan (belt loop hanger) on the civil saya and then cover it with leather.  The covers were custom fit to each saya.  You will see (I have seen) leather covers on EVERYTHING - Kyugunto, kaigunto, Type 19s, Type 95s, wakizashi, etc.  It's not restricted to any sort of sword or saya.  The metal haikan on yours would not have been used without the leather cover.  A good percentage of these covers go missing by the time we, as collectors, get the sword.  The leather gets worn and rotten during the war and falls off, or owners, post-war, screw around with them and lose them, who knows, but it is common to see the saya with the hanger but no leather, by today.

On a kyugunto (metal saya)

 

On a kaigunto (wooden saya) with 500 yr old family blade:

 

Interesting.. It would be cool to see what and how they (leather wraps) were used, with the civilian fittings. I've only seen them with the gunto swords/fitting/colors. 
  I'm still trying to find the reason for the difference in "signature, makers name" ..

as the mid and lower section of the top kanji, are different. Extra vertical line -mid and VV vs AV (hashes) on the bottom.

- seems like that would be a different name. 

  Thank you

Jamie

[Bruce Pennington]

14 minutes ago, 75Corvette said:

It would be cool to see what and how they (leather wraps) were used, with the civilian fittings. I've only seen them with the gunto swords/fitting/colors. 

This will take a while, with my poor web-searching skills.  Here's one with civil saya, and civil menugi, but army tsuka - Iron Civilian Gunto Tsuba

 

Wooden saya, leather cover

 

Remains of leather saya cover on Fully Civil sword

[SteveM]

39 minutes ago, 75Corvette said:

I'm still trying to find the reason for the difference in "signature, makers name" ..

 

It really is a question for Aoi Art, who is infamous for using horrible machine translations and mangled English descriptions.  I suspect they are referring to "Moriyama Kaneshige" who was a smith from Chiba prefecture who worked through the war and well into the 1970s. The Kaneshige on your sword is a different Kaneshige. Probably Sakō Kaneshige (酒向兼茂) from Gifu prefecture.

[75Corvette]

1 hour ago, SteveM said:

 

It really is a question for Aoi Art, who is infamous for using horrible machine translations and mangled English descriptions.  I suspect they are referring to "Moriyama Kaneshige" who was a smith from Chiba prefecture who worked through the war and well into the 1970s. The Kaneshige on your sword is a different Kaneshige. Probably Sakō Kaneshige (酒向兼茂) from Gifu prefecture.

Great insight! Thank you

[75Corvette]

4 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

This will take a while, with my poor web-searching skills.  Here's one with civil saya, and civil menugi, but army tsuka - Iron Civilian Gunto Tsuba

 

Wooden saya, leather cover

 

Remains of leather saya cover on Fully Civil sword

Bruce

  Does this symbol/kanji mean anything? At first, I thought it was part of the design.. but now seeing it as something else.

R

jamie

[75Corvette]

I would like to thank everyone for their time and efforts.. please excuse the lack of personal thank you's. As I am still figuring out the art of forum posts..

  As I have done years of research into topics and areas of my own.. please know that I understand the value of time and effort. Mostly the patience in translating my questions! 
  I am working on my vocabulary.. as well as learning Kanji. 

VR

jamie

[Bruce Pennington]

12 hours ago, 75Corvette said:

symbol/kanji mean

I am the worst guy to answer that question!  Hopefully some of the translators can help.

[75Corvette]

44 minutes ago, Bruce Pennington said:

I am the worst guy to answer that question!  Hopefully some of the translators can help.

I get it... I keep coming up with "profit"

and I'm pretty sure that's not right..

Thank you.

Jamie

[SteveM]

Its supposedly the name of the metalworker who made the tsuba: 一利 Kazutoshi

[75Corvette]

11 minutes ago, SteveM said:

Its supposedly the name of the metalworker who made the tsuba: 一利 Kazutoshi

Wow! That is the same kanji that came up as "profit" .... 

R

jamie

[SteveM]

Yes, it is has several meanings, all with positive connotations: merit, profit, efficient, etc... This is why it is considered a good/appropriate kanji to use in names. 

[75Corvette]

19 minutes ago, SteveM said:

Yes, it is has several meanings, all with positive connotations: merit, profit, efficient, etc... This is why it is considered a good/appropriate kanji to use in names. 

Very cool! I wondered if it had a "religious" type meaning vs monetary.. 

R

Jamie