First post, first sword.. need a translation.

[75Corvette]

 

[Bugyotsuji]

To get the ball rolling, but no guarantees!

Showa 17

兼武 Kanetake?

 

－　兼武 Kanetake　－　日本刀の通信販売　明倫産業株式会社 (nipponto.co.jp)

[Nobody]

兼茂 - Kaneshige

 

Ref. AS21481 Katana:Kaneshige – 日本刀販売の葵美術 (sword-auction.com)

 

[75Corvette]

[Bruce Pennington]

Jamie, welcome!

How about a clear pic like that of that small stamp above the name?  But after some touch-up and zoom, I see it's the large Seki.

[75Corvette]

  On 10/27/2022 at 3:25 PM, Bruce Pennington said:

Jamie, welcome!

How about a clear pic like that of that small stamp above the name?  But after some touch-up and zoom, I see it's the large Seki.

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Bruce

  Thank you, here is a better image.

sorry to fumble through this, whatever software this is... has me at a learning curve.

VR

jamie

[75Corvette]

  On 10/27/2022 at 5:48 AM, Nobody said:

兼茂 - Kaneshige

 

Ref. AS21481 Katana:Kaneshige – 日本刀販売の葵美術 (sword-auction.com)

Nobody

  thank you for the fast response. I was able to get a better image, of acceptable size.. I see there are minor variations of this name through time.. I hope this helps.

VR

Jamie

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[75Corvette]

[75Corvette]

  On 10/27/2022 at 5:48 AM, Nobody said:

兼茂 - Kaneshige

 

Ref. AS21481 Katana:Kaneshige – 日本刀販売の葵美術 (sword-auction.com)

Does this line, help answer anything about the sword?

Thank you

jamie

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[Bruce Pennington]

Thanks for the great shot, Jamie!  Large Seki stamp on a 1942 Kaneshige blade.  The painted marks are "427", likely put there by the assembly team or shop.  Some of your fittings may have the same number.  The stamp means the blade passed inspection by the Seki Cutlery Manufacturers Assoc, who had the task of weeding out poor quality showato from the market.

[Bugyotsuji]

Your photos are great, Jamie.

 

As above, 昭和十七 is the date of your blade's manufacture, = Showa 17, (with a roughly painted added No. 627).

[75Corvette]

  On 10/28/2022 at 12:01 AM, Bruce Pennington said:

Thanks for the great shot, Jamie!  Large Seki stamp on a 1942 Kaneshige blade.  The painted marks are "427", likely put there by the assembly team or shop.  Some of your fittings may have the same number.  The stamp means the blade passed inspection by the Seki Cutlery Manufacturers Assoc, who had the task of weeding out poor quality showato from the market.

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Is this stating it was made in 1942, or modified in 1942... as I was told by a shop who examined it.

  The punched vs drilled hole, hamon, folded blade in modified civilian mounts?

This where I'm finding my confusion... 

VR

jamie

[Bruce Pennington]

You haven’t shown us the fittings. But it was made in 1942.  Can’t tell what you mean by modified fittings without seeing them.

[75Corvette]

  On 10/28/2022 at 1:50 AM, Bruce Pennington said:

You haven’t shown us the fittings. But it was made in 1942.  Can’t tell what you mean by modified fittings without seeing them.

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[75Corvette]

[75Corvette]

[75Corvette]

[75Corvette]

And I greatly appreciate all the help, and explanations. 
R

Jamie

[Brian]

The Seki stamp means it is not folded and fully traditionally made.

[75Corvette]

  On 10/28/2022 at 6:29 AM, Brian said:

The Seki stamp means it is not folded and fully traditionally made.

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This leads to a few more questions..

- Did civilian blades get marked with Seki when accepted into military use?

- Am I not seeing a folded blade grain with hamon after, hours of polishing.. being what is showing up better, as I remove the oxidation? 
-- Any explanation for old civilian fittings, fitted to this blade.. and modified to single military hanger, on a (Seki blade) that made to look like a traditional blade, for the WWII war effort? This is what has me very confused.

VR

jamie

- here is what I started with.

the other pictures above.. are all of this sword.

[Bruce Pennington]

Ok, he probably is talking about he saya (scabbard).  The whole rig is civil and the saya had a knob (kurikata) that was removed for the war fittings.  The metal belt loop was added and the whole thing would have been covered with leather.

 

Many blades made during WWII were sold on the open market and made their way into civilian hands.  As the war escalated, and Japan transitioned from the early Western styled swords back to traditionally designed swords, there was a tremendous shortage.  The govt petitioned the populace to donate their private swords to the military, and the military even went out and paid people for their swords.  These were then, in varying degrees, re-fitted for the war.  Sometimes, like this one, this simply meant adding a leather saya cover with the associated metal ring.

 

You can read about this effort on Nick Komiya's page here: Program for converting family blades and short blades into Gunto

 

As to the blade, it has long been believed that blades receiving the Seki (or Showa) stamp were not traditionally made.  Actual documentary proof of this is split 50/50. 

[75Corvette]

  On 10/28/2022 at 12:54 PM, Bruce Pennington said:

Ok, he probably is talking about he saya (scabbard).  The whole rig is civil and the saya had a knob (kurikata) that was removed for the war fittings.  The metal belt loop was added and the whole thing would have been covered with leather.

 

Many blades made during WWII were sold on the open market and made their way into civilian hands.  As the war escalated, and Japan transitioned from the early Western styled swords back to traditionally designed swords, there was a tremendous shortage.  The govt petitioned the populace to donate their private swords to the military, and the military even went out and paid people for their swords.  These were then, in varying degrees, re-fitted for the war.  Sometimes, like this one, this simply meant adding a leather saya cover with the associated metal ring.

 

You can read about this effort on Nick Komiya's page here: Program for converting family blades and short blades into Gunto

 

As to the blade, it has long been believed that blades receiving the Seki (or Showa) stamp were not traditionally made.  Actual documentary proof of this is split 50/50. 

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Thank you for the link! I will dive into that..

  you are very correct in what you are saying.. as to what I can see in my hands.

Exact traditional part names.. I'm still working on! In depth analysis of antique metal and weapons,, I'm pretty good at.

  Shows no sign of the leather covering.. just older than 1942 civilian fittings.. loosing its traditional sash wrap and hanger, for the single wartime clip mount.. The leather covers seem to fit the metal scabbards.. at least with the 4-5 I've examined.

   When the blade was examined prior to me.. the answer was, early-mid 1800's blade with original fittings.. converted to wartime use and marked as such. NOT a rare or very old blade, no famous maker, likely some low level village politician. 
- Only thing "special" was not being machine made war blade.. and having real pre war fittings (except for the hanger)

  my joy is in the polishing work I've done myself.. and having it re-wrapped in old silk, keeping it as found.. just clean and functional. With 100 hours or so of my own work into it. 
  It was a joy to see the hamon show up as I polished away.. and the grain of the steel. Won't be a show winner, as it has a few nicks and such.. and I'm not paying $100 an inch to polish it with gypsy spit and fairy dust. Just lots of light oil and very fine paper. 
   Needless to say, with this sword being what it is.. the way it is, I'm getting a good amount of research done, that I didn't intend to do... as it raises so many questions. 
VR

Jamie

[Brian]

Discussing amateur and self-polishing is the fastest way to exit this forum rapidly.
It's repeated over and over here. No discussion, no argument. Just don't do it.

[75Corvette]

  On 10/28/2022 at 1:36 PM, Brian said:

Discussing amateur and self-polishing is the fastest way to exit this forum rapidly.
It's repeated over and over here. No discussion, no argument. Just don't do it.

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Yes, I would imagine so... but since I'm being told it's a 1942 tourist blade, mistreated and of little to no value. I guess I'm safe.. my fingers will be hard as nails.

  where can I find sources of kanji styles through time.. as I see the sword makers name is used through the centuries.. and changes a bit. 
This is helping greatly!

thank you.

R

Jsmie

[b.hennick]

👎

[Toryu2020]

The actual kanji did not change all that much over time, at least not in the relatively short 2000 year period that covers the eras of nihonto making. Smiths got better at writing is about all the change you will see. I recommend "The Samura Sword by John M. Yumoto" he has several pages showing common kanji and their variation. There is a wealth of ther information there to.

 

-t

PS it doesn't need a polish...

[75Corvette]

  On 10/28/2022 at 3:05 PM, b.hennick said:

👎

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Which part are you disagreeing with?

[75Corvette]

  On 10/28/2022 at 3:10 PM, Toryu2020 said:

The actual kanji did not change all that much over time, at least not in the relatively short 2000 year period that covers the eras of nihonto making. Smiths got better at writing is about all the change you will see. I recommend "The Samura Sword by John M. Yumoto" he has several pages showing common kanji and their variation. There is a wealth of ther information there to.

 

-t

PS it doesn't need a polish...

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Pretty sure the writing style changed through the years... as other experts had to use the writing style to figure out what period the piece was made. As well as the examples of particular signature of this smith. 

[75Corvette]

  On 10/28/2022 at 3:10 PM, Toryu2020 said:

The actual kanji did not change all that much over time, at least not in the relatively short 2000 year period that covers the eras of nihonto making. Smiths got better at writing is about all the change you will see. I recommend "The Samura Sword by John M. Yumoto" he has several pages showing common kanji and their variation. There is a wealth of ther information there to.

 

-t

PS it doesn't need a polish...

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Not now... as I stopped the spread of rust, and eventual ruin. Sadly I can't account for the years of neglect and mistreatment... but now that I have it.. it will stay clean and respected. As with the other antiquities I care for in my house.. 

[Toryu2020]

Jaime - the actual kanji character itself did not evolve - writing styles were well established by the Edo period with the exception of new fonts developed for the "printing press". However these were not employed on sword signatures so your choices are basically; block style, cursive and grass writing. Yumoto Sensei provides us with good examples in his book. A quick glance and you should be able to see and understand the differences...

 

-t