Warren H

[Warren H]

I am trying to translate the tang as to the swordsmith and time (timeframe, approximate age) the sword was made. The sword was brought back by a WW2 vet. My grandfather acquired it shortly thereafter, and I received it from my parents.

My interest is to eventually determine the value of the sword so I may decide if it is worth restoring or maintaining it as is.

Thank You for any help you can provide.

[ChrisW]

Upon first glace, this is a kikumon-signed and dated wakizashi in fairly nice handachi style fittings. Please make sure to not handle the blade with bare hands and oil it with a non-abrasive oil (mineral oil is fine). Also only lay the blade on a clean cloth of some kind. Nice blade! My gut feeling is yes. Congrats on becoming its caretaker!

 

Here is an article discussing care for it: (hmmm.. main link is down, Brian, any ideas on what happened?) 

 

Here is another guide, but disregard anything it says about uchiko powder (that stuff is best left to professionals): http://www.japaneseswordindex.com/care.htm

[Grey Doffin]

Iga no Kami Fujiwara Kinmichi. There were a variety of smiths using this signature between the late 16th and 18th centuries. The sword will have to be seen in hand by someone knowledgeable and honest before much more can be known about it.

Grey

[ROKUJURO]

  On 10/18/2022 at 8:54 PM, ChrisW said:

..... and oil it with a non-abrasive oil (mineral oil is fine). ...

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Chris,

you mention this sometimes in connection with sword care. Could you please explain what an abrasive oil is in your opinion?

[ChrisW]

Better safe than sorry, some people equivocate metal polishes/honing oils with regular oils. I've seen it happen firsthand so I am always certain to make sure they know to avoid abrasive oils like honing oil.

[Okan]

Hmm didn't know honing oil was abrasive..isn't it mineral oil?

 

 

[SteveM]

Reverse side says

日本鍛冶惣匠

Nihon kaji sōshō

 

 

According to Markus, this inscription is associated with Kinmichi the 2nd. (Assuming, of course, the inscription isn't a forgery).

https://markussesko.com/2013/02/19/how-honorary-titles-were-conferred/

[Warren H]

Does anyone know where in Melbourne, or Orlando Fl, I might find someone that could authentic my sword. I am well aware of the fact that at the end of the war a great number of swords were made in China then aged in some way and old signatures were then forged on the tang. I hope that is not the case with my sword but as Steve M alluded to it is possible; therefore, having the signature checked is very important.

[Shugyosha]

Hi Warren,

I think this gentleman is not far away from you:

 

 

[ROKUJURO]

Warren,

it will not work this way round. The signature has to confirm the school or smith whose identity has to be found out by the features of the blade. First step is to look at the blade itself and then try an assessment. Last step is confirming the MEI. 

In many cases you will need a solid (traditional) polish first and then have a SHINSA panel authenticate the blade.

[DoTanuki yokai]

Hi Warren I just want to point out that Chinese fakes does not look like this. If the signature is fake it was done in Japan, they faked signatures for century’s for more profit. 

[Paz]

  On 10/18/2022 at 8:54 PM, ChrisW said:

Upon first glace, this is a kikumon-signed and dated wakizashi in fairly nice handachi style fittings. Please make sure to not handle the blade with bare hands and oil it with a non-abrasive oil (mineral oil is fine). Also only lay the blade on a clean cloth of some kind. Nice blade! My gut feeling is yes. Congrats on becoming its caretaker!

 

Here is an article discussing care for it: (hmmm.. main link is down, Brian, any ideas on what happened?) 

 

Here is another guide, but disregard anything it says about uchiko powder (that stuff is best left to professionals): http://www.japaneseswordindex.com/care.htm

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How do you know how he handles it and what oil he uses. ? 

He could be wearing mask gloves and condoms while handling it for all we know. 

[Bruce Pennington]

  On 10/19/2022 at 9:42 AM, Paz said:

How do you know how he handles it and what oil he uses. ?

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It's just a standard basic set of care instructions, Paz, given to all newcomers to the forum.

 

On the Kikumon - I have 6 other Kinmichi blades on file with the chrysanthemum.  3 have and empty, large center:

 

While the other 3 use a flattened, oblong kiku:

 

Only 2 of the large-center blades have dates, 1767 and 1771.

Your is the first one I've seen with that 5-petal center, although it's still in the same idea as the 5-pointed star of the oblong kiku style.

[Matsunoki]

  On 10/19/2022 at 9:42 AM, Paz said:

  On 10/18/2022 at 8:54 PM, ChrisW said:

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How do you know how he handles it and what oil he uses. ? 

He could be wearing mask gloves and condoms while handling it for all we know. 

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Paz….this seems a bit “uncalled for”. Chris is simply offering advice to help preserve the sword. Warren may well already be aware of what is needed but we can see uchiko in the earlier pics and we know that the cheap stuff can scratch a nice polish.

I’ve never seen condoms mentioned in sword care advice, you are the first to quote such practice.

[PietroParis]

I would add that the pictures of the bare blade on what appears to be a hard marble surface do invite the standard recommendations about basic care...

[Paz]

  On 10/19/2022 at 2:47 PM, PietroParis said:

I would add that the pictures of the bare blade on what appears to be a hard marble surface do invite the standard recommendations about basic care...

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This is the only thing I could allude to. 

 

As it could scratch 

[JD808]

Paz if you ain't got anything constructive to say........

[Warren H]

Thanks, Shugyosha, Mr Singer confirmed the markings and believes the sword is authentic; however, he still suggested I find a Shinsa to look over the sword for a definitive answer.

[Jacques]

There were several Kinmichi engraving Nihon kaji sosho but the center of the kikumon seems to be by the sandai. 

[SteveM]

Note: There are two ways to write Nihon kaji sōshō 

 

1. 日本鍛冶惣匠　(Nihon kaji sōshō)　used by Kinmichi 2nd, Kinmichi 3rd until Kyoho 6 (1721)

2. 日本鍛冶宗匠　(Nihon kaji sōshō)　used by Kinmichi 3rd and succeeding generations 

 

The sword in this thread is type #1, so the sword in this thread should be either the 2nd or early 3rd generation.

 

Kinmichi 2nd 

https://www.choshuya.co.jp/senrigan-1/銘　（菊紋）伊賀守藤原金道（二代）　日本鍛冶惣匠/585

 

Kinmichi 3rd (using type 1 signature)

https://www.shoubudou.co.jp/products/detail.php?product_id=42

 

Side by side. Both authenticated. Too hard for me to tell if the sword in this thread is 2nd or 3rd (or a forgery). Of course, there is always the possibility that both authentications are incorrect. As always, refer to the sword before the signature. 

[Jacques]

There are families of smiths whose members are very difficult to distinguish like this one where the mei are very similar and the engraving is not always very consistent (small variations). The worst school in this respect is the Mizuta Kunishige school where the signature is identical whatever the generation. 

 

 

  Quote

Of course, there is always the possibility that both authentications are incorrect

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I doubt it.

[Jacques]

I continue to lean for the sandai, I attach two photos nidai and sandai extracted from Fujishiro. Look carefully at the kanji kami and Michi.

[Warren H]

I wish to thank everyone for their input in helping me with the translation on my sword’s tang. I have been able to find several signatures by both the 2nd and 3rd generation Kinmichi. Comparing them to mine I would say that my sword is an early 3rd generation Kinmichi. WHY?? Because the “Sosho” part is written the same way as 3rd Gen did in his early years. AND, the “Michi” part looks like the way the 3rd Gen used more so than the 2nd Gen. Therefore, if my sword is not a fake then it was made sometime between 1684 and 1721.

Again, THANKS to all for your input

[Jacques]

It has great chances to be shoshin.