New Aquisition

[Utopianarian]

Recently acquired this blade for what I thought was an excellent buy considering what it might be. Lots of activity. 71.1 cm nagasa, 2 cm sori, 19.8 cm nakago nagasa, 2.7 cm motohaba, 1.8 cm sakihaba, 0.65 cm motokasane, 0.42cm sakikasane, kissaki 2.7 cm, blade is mumei, suriage with 2 punched Ana. Hamon with mix of suguha and ko-choji with activities of yubashiri, kinsuji, inazuma. Pronounced utsuri and Ji-nie. I am assuming it appears like old blade I feel at least late kamakura or sooner. Please those of you that have much more experience and knowledge educate me on this very intriguing blade. I still feel like I don’t have enough of a knowledge base yet. Here are pics. The blade has more of a softer look to the hamon noi and the grain appears more harsh or coarse in pics for some reason.

[Utopianarian]

More pics

[Utopianarian]

More pics

[Utopianarian]

More pics

[Utopianarian]

The blade has a KoBizen  type of feel to it. I have more of a better chance hitting lottery then that being the case.. sorry pipe dream 

[Utopianarian]

More pics

[Utopianarian]

Anybody on the board have any opinion as to what they might guess possible era or school this blade might be from? The seller represented the blade from the 1550s. My thoughts are it’s a lot older.

[Nihontocollector752]

Looks like Muromachi, what makes you lean to Ko-Bizen?

[paulb]

George,

I think it is pretty much impossible to guess at the age from images (not just yours, any) Shape is interesting and suggests early but the steel just doesn't look as early as Kumakura and certainly not ko-Bizen. Again, this is very much guesswork. It desperately needs to be seen in hand to get a better idea of what it is. If i had to offer an opinion I would say it is late Muromachi but can't honestly tell you why.

Edit: Sorry see I Jimmy got there before me but seems to come to the same conclusion

[Utopianarian]

The measurements ko-kissaki and differential of motohaba to sakihaba, Sori, low iori mune (not steep) and the features or activity I listed above in the post are a match for KoBizen works. The steel does have a very clear bluish purple which is very noticeable in contrast to other swords I have ( I know that is not reliable) It may be difficult to see in pics. Complex activities such as ashi, sungashi and kinsuji and very small ko-choji along the blade that are within the hamon which are hard to see in pics - poor state of the old polish. The blade has a wetness to it but appears rough in pics with many areas of ware. Yubashiri also floating above the hamon. Ko-nie also present and utsuri. The grain is very tight and has wood grain running itame-hada. The noi-guchi line seems like it’s floating and dimensional comprised of noi not a defined bright nie line (non reflective) Or Bizen. The blade also is suriage at 28 inch nagasa. The shape is interesting as well. The nakago has black patina which I know is not a reliable factor in all cases to determine age but it is a small point to consider. It is my guess or opinion. I was also not serious when I actually said it’s KoBizen because it is most likely not. I also have limited knowledge and experience as I never actually seen one in person or had one in hand. That’s why I ask those of you knowledge and experience which may have held a KoBizen or own one. It is hard to judge just from pics I understand. 

[Utopianarian]

Jimmy why Muromachi in your opinion.  

[Nihontocollector752]

The Muromachi is due to what i can see from the pictures,  as stated, just an observation. Your swords kissaki is not Heian or early to mid Kamakura in shape and the kissaki from Heian to Mid Kamakura did vary quite a bit in Bizen. The steel is not tight and has signifigant openings as well as too much ohada. The measurements you describe can all be profiled by a polisher so please don't go by that as much as the forging activity. The length is not unheard of for Muromachi Bizen, there exist a few Juyo Muromachi Bizen blades of significant length that other members with access can possibly post for your information. 

 

I think if you could take a few more pics we could get a few more opinions.

 

Edit: would you entertain the possibility of Sue-Tegai ?

[Utopianarian]

Jimmy well said, some valid points I will take into account. The running itame hada and many polishes over the years might appear ohada and the openings from thinning skin into core steel. The length and measurements as you stated as with any blade can be profited by a polisher. The length is just a small part to take into account of the many other indicators. Nagasa length alone absolutely does not solely determine era as with any blade or era. It’s just my collective guess so to speak. I would agree Muromachi but what made me pull the trigger when I saw this blade initially was the ghost like floating dots that look like consistent “Ghost fingerprints” sporadically appearing in intervals generally floating above the hamon throughout the length of the blade. They are not tobiyaki or solid islands but look sort of translucent. I called it Yubashiri which may be wrong. And I am afraid to throw the word JIFU UTSURI out there. I researched jifu utsuri and there are so many explanations and even on this board have had differences about it. That is the factor that made me think old blade and the KoBizen remote possibility. It is very hard to capture on pictures. I tried multiple times and will continue to keep trying until I have just the right lighting and angle to capture. I will post it soon hopefully. I don’t know of any late Muromachi blades with jifu utsuri “Ghost fingerprints” 👻 Happy Halloween everyone!!!

[Nihontocollector752]

It is an interesting one for sure. Heartbreaking on the openings here and there and with the kasane being .6+ i figured still enough meat on there rather than some older swords which go to .5 and such. If you get it papered with the NBTHK please let me know the outcome. 

[Utopianarian]

This is the best I could get with pictures. Still very poor as how it actually appears in hand. I describe it as Yubashiri not sure if jifu utsuri or not. Some of these translucent spots are oblong or oval others wider but generally are just on or above the hamon on both sides dotting along the blade. Utsuri just below these or almost touching possibly overlapping in some areas. They are just like utsuri. In other words they are like spots of utsuri exactly like the utsuri ghosting above the hamon. Not solid patches or islands. I have one other blade that has the same type of similar pattern. Does this have any significance or point me in the right direction as to a possible general attribution?

[Nihontocollector752]

I'm sorry to say but this is not utsuri

[Utopianarian]

Jimmy do think this sword might fall into Yamato shizu category. You did mention Sue-Tegai. Running hada so more likely looks Yamato and has the complex activity and features of Yamato shizu. 

[Nihontocollector752]

This is not Shizu related 

[Utopianarian]

Jimmy regarding your observation saying it’s not utsuri. If you mean in that very picture you can’t see the utsuri because I tilted the sword to get the light to reflect on the spots or Yubashiri. The utsuri is visible in earlier photos on this post which is emphasized and reflective in those pics. It’s impossible to get all activities to show all at once as a blade has geometric shape not just flat if that is what you are referring to in just that one pic.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Hi George, it looks to fit something more like "botan-utsuri". This would also make sense for a Muromachi Bizen work.

 

https://markussesko.com/2015/05/14/kantei-2-jigane-jihada-3/

 

 

 

Attached is a sword from the Oei Bizen Yasumitsu group showing similar floating Utsuri patches:

[Utopianarian]

Thanks John. I appreciate the helpful information I am trying to gather. You guys all have been helpful. Thank you all for your knowledge and experience

[Utopianarian]

Jimmy, the more I am studying the blade the more apparent it becomes that you were right on point of being Tegai but it does appear like early Tegai school with more activity in the hamon than Sue Tegai that might not have shown well in the initial pictures

[Utopianarian]

Detailed pics. I sorta mounted camera on nakago like a sniper scope staring down the nagasa and tried to get best light source. This is the best I can come up with messing with settings on the cell phone camera 

[Nihontocollector752]

Ok that changes quite a few things, i wish i could see this in hand but alas, can you please please do a few more and try to get hataraki in the pics

[Utopianarian]

What really intrigued me was the middle Kamakura shape to the blade. I know others will laugh but feel free to give your honest opinions. Do you or others feel from at least what you can see from the pics posted so far a general idea. Yourself, Michael, Jean, Jussi and others to many to list of experienced collectors who may have a ballpark idea. I will try to add more pics in the future. Right now at work. 

[paulb]

George,

We are often told that shape tells you how old a sword is. Actually, it doesn't. An ubu shape can tell you how young a blade is but not how old. Smiths have been making copies or pieces in the style of older work for very many years. Below is an example seen here before. The shape is screamingly early Kamakura. In fact it was made in the Oei period some 200 years later than one might originally suspect.

 

 

[Nihontocollector752]

We need to put all the features together to get a clear picture. As Paulb has said.

[Utopianarian]

Here are about the best I can get. I included quite a few pictures in this post but of course in hand is the best.

your thoughts? I think Tegai Kanenaga with some Soshu influence apparent in  this work. Of course shape of blade and curvature alone is not reliable as I had mentioned earlier in this post.

[Okan]

I don’t see Kanenaga here, sorry.

 

[Utopianarian]

Thank you for assessment it helps to narrow down and rule out.