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Lee997
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Lee997 Enthusiast

Lee997

Posted
Posted

Hi all, only just recently joined this group and have been busy reading many of the posts. I’ve observed there’s a few members from the Uk on here which is reassuring! 
can I ask where you find swords in the Uk? 
I’ve found many non Uk websites but am painfully aware of the difficulties of importing let alone finding a trusted source.

 

many thanks.

FZ1 Proficient

FZ1

Posted
Posted

Hi Lee,

 

Several of the "Western oriented" Japanese dealers are very helpful when exporting/importing and for those that aren't, you can always use an agent, although that does put the cost up.  This forum is a good source of info regarding people's experiences with various dealers.

 

Keep an eye on the "For Sale" forum ("Follow" it so you get emailed about new posts) and you can also post in the "Wanted" forum, specifying a preference for a UK purchase.  Some UK collectors prefer to sell within the UK because of the hassle you mentioned in export/import (me included after some bad experiences when exporting!)

 

As you get to know more collectors (e.g. via the To Ken Society of GB or or here on the NMB), let them know what you're looking for and they will be able to keep an eye out for you.

 

Cheers,

 

Jon

 

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Mark C Proficient

Mark C

Posted
Posted

Hi Lee,

 

You could spent countless weekends trawling the various military and arms fair across the UK, not sure which area you are in but they are fairly well spread.

 

Like the comment above, I recommend joining one the the Token societies as they are well worth the money and have some great meetings.

 

All the best

 

Mark

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Dave R Grand Master

Dave R

Posted
Posted
14 hours ago, Lee997 said:

Hi all, only just recently joined this group and have been busy reading many of the posts. I’ve observed there’s a few members from the Uk on here which is reassuring! 
can I ask where you find swords in the Uk? 
I’ve found many non Uk websites but am painfully aware of the difficulties of importing let alone finding a trusted source.

 

many thanks.

 

As written before, depending on where you are in the UK there are a number of Arms and Militaria Fairs. The bigger the fair and the further south the better the choice..... and the higher the prices! There are also UK based online dealers, which can save a lot of pain regarding Customs and Excise and shipping restrictions. I tend to buy off the dealers table after an in-hand inspection when it comes to blades, as there is so much that can be wrong with a blade regarding hidden and obscure defects.

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Paz Proficient

Paz

Posted
Posted

Hi @Lee997

 

I also begun my collection and study at the start of this year with genuine nihonto collection. I've been lucky enough to own 5 and sell some on. 

 

I do encourage you as mentioned prior to join the Token society, and attend if you can or near any arms fairs. 

This forum will allow you meet fellow UK collectors, and some may even have swords on offer. I for one found this very useful and was able to get a fantastic blade off this forum. 

 

Keep an eye on the sales section. 

 

However. 

 

I must inform you that the boogie man of UK collectors at times seems to be the mention of imports. 

By not going the import route you are closing yourself off to a whole world of swords for great prices. There are many great dealers in Japan and USA, who sell you something that you won't be able to get in the UK. As you study more, you might specific about what you actually want, and may have no choice but to go abroad. 

 

There are UK dealers that are good. And one I won't mention, that you should steer clear of. 

 

But my main point is that the UK market in terms of shopping online, isn't comparable to what you will get in Japan and America. 

The best swords that I owend were imports and from Brits who had to import them. 

 

Since January I have imported 3 blades successfully. As long as you know what to write on the invoice, have token membership as back up. There should be no problem, as antiques and traditional made swords are legal. 

There are the odd stories you will hear, but there usually is a mistake in the paperwork. 

 

Many Brits here will give you the best advice of what to put on the invoice for customs. There is a whole thread dedicated to this, and once you get one you will feel comfortable to try again. 

 

Hope this helps 

 

Kind regards 

Paz

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Matsunoki Grand Master

Matsunoki

Posted
Posted

Hello again Lee

Quite a few swords regularly crop up in various UK auctions. Very often they are crap or worse still Chinese fakes so you need to very very careful. Don’t take what the auctioneer says as being correct….build your knowledge first. Having said that a good way to find out about all such items is to use the search facility in www.the-saleroom.com. 
This is an online platform used by most auctioneers to enable online bidding etc. Hundreds of catalogues are always online and you can search them all in a few seconds. Don’t just put “Japanese sword”, instead use the specific sword words ie katana, Tachi, wakizashi etc. You can also set up your account to save everything you’ve looked at and thus see what pieces made etc. You’ll have to play with it a bit to figure out how it works but you will see lots of swords. You don’t have to actually bid to use the system. 

Also keep an eye on Bonhams Japanese sales and Thomas deal Mar in London. Also Holts auctioneers often have swords.

Don’t be  afraid to ask the auctioneers for more info on things like condition, provenance etc and if they are uncooperative then walk away.

Trouble is ….everyone else will find them as well so don’t expect bargains and don’t forget the damned auctioneers commission. 
The safest and most enjoyable way to buy is from people/collectors that you know and trust where you can handle the sword and “have a deal”…..build your network!

And don’t be suckered by trusting images/photos. They will never show you the true sword. A polishing technique called Hadori can sometimes hide a multitude of “issues”, and it’s usually impossible to see the true hamon in images where that style of polish is used?

……and don’t be afraid to ask this Forum for advice before buying.…..

Happy hunting.

Colin.

 

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Matsunoki Grand Master

Matsunoki

Posted
Posted

Hi Jon

Yep, I’d be up for in the right location etc.

Might take a bit of organising……..

Maybe start a separate post  to see who else there might be. They might not pick up on it on this post?

All the best

 Colin

8 hours ago, FZ1 said:

@Matsunoki @Lee997  and anyone else in the East  - How about an East Anglian nihonto get-together over the autumn/winter? :thumbsup:

 

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IBot Contributor

IBot

Posted
Posted

Lee,  Whilst I agree with Colin, there are times when good swords and blades do crop up on UK auction sites and if you can spot them they an be a really good buy. Without a doubt my best buy is a sword by Bizen Osafune Saemonjo Norimitsu dated the 2nd year of Onin. Not only that, it is in a saya with the finest kojiri I have ever seen - a sheaf of rice modelled in silver partially embedded in the lacquer that must have been a nightmare to fit. The tsuba is a Kyoto shippo piece as is the fuchi but the kashira was missing. So far I have not managed to show it isn't by who it says it is. If it is a fake so what - it is a fabulous blade with all the characteristics it should have. Another good buy was a daisho in virtually as-new condition. It has shakudo nanako F/K of hedges and flowers etc and marubori dragon tsuba. Nothing was signed, except the kozuka, but I am sure the blades, which both retain good polishes, are Kyushu - possibly one of theTadayoshi. The snag, the daito is under 2 shaku but again so what - I now own a beautiful pair of swords that as I was informed by a Japanese sword guy - they were probably worn by a small person. As I was the only bidder on those swords I acquired them very cheaply for what they are. So Lee, keep your eyes peeled and look at everything that comes up. Good luck. 

Ian Bottomley 

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paulb Grand Master

paulb

Posted
Posted

Dear Lee and Colin,

As you may know the Token Society of GB hold regular regional meetings around the country. The only governing factor is finding a suitable venue and that there are sufficient people with an interest to make it worthwhile. We have held meetings in Scotland, the Northeast of England the midlands and the south. Happy to add East Anglia if the interest is there.

If of interest, please get in touch via pm and we can see what we can do

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Shugyosha Grand Master

Shugyosha

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Nihontocollector752 said:

From what I've heard the token society in the UK is more of a sales meeting, just what I've been told, but you never know 

No, you don’t know. 

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Alex A Grand Master

Alex A

Posted
Posted

As just one of a bunch that went to the Leeds Meeting.

 

No sales, 

 

Talks by Paul, Michael and Ian B, also shown around the Japanese arms and armour by Ian B (who's knowledge on the subject knows no bounds)

 

Table of 20 swords to hold and view.

 

Brilliant day, didn't buy anything but a cup of tea.

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Matsunoki Grand Master

Matsunoki

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, IBot said:

Lee,  Whilst I agree with Colin, there are times when good swords and blades do crop up on UK auction sites and if you can spot them they an be a really good buy

Hi Ian

I bet you didn’t buy the swords you mention recently in a UK auction 🙂?

All the best. Colin

Alex A Grand Master

Alex A

Posted
Posted

Swords are out there in the UK, its if you can be bothered looking, as so much already "in polish" online overseas.

 

When visiting arms fairs there is always a Japanese sword that catches the eye. Say to the dealer "where did you get that from?", they always reply "someone walked in with it earlier".

 

Saw an advert on gunstar "Japanese swords wanted"

 

Talking about arms fairs, you do come across swords. Last time i went there was a Koto katana in gunto fittings, in old polish, the guy wanted £1200.

Year before that, another Koto katana, really dark steel (Northern something), gunto fittings, £900

 

Few years ago, a wakizashi in gunto fittings, £600. Chunky blade and was tempted. Fresh polish but polish could have been better as it was a commercial job. Turned out to be Yokoyama (as i found out later).

 

Always see waks in koshirae, sometimes really nice koshirae. Seen those at £650, 

 

Shinshinto tanto in last fittings, always.

 

A few years ago there was a sword with really nice fittings . Omori wave type Fuchi/Kashira

 

A few years before that a Koto Katana, signed Bizen. That was nice as it had really old koshirae in sleepy condition, matching Nanako fittings. £800

 

A super long Shinshinto katana, also with its last really nice koshirae. Very long tsuka, the kashira was hanging on for dear life, but still great to see. £1800

 

All these stick in the mind, as knew they were good deals.

 

As always, the really interesting items turn up when you are looking for something else.:laughing:

 

 

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Alex A Grand Master

Alex A

Posted
Posted

Again, no sales, we were not allowed to take our own items

 

Jimmy, for some reason or another, you coming across as being somewhat upset about something.

 

So your in the UK, 

 

This is not the best place to make your point, write to the Token society.

 

Also, some very educational ZOOM meetings, ever tried selling something at a ZOOM meeting.

 

Stands up/Butts in "anyone want to buy this?":laughing:

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Matsunoki Grand Master

Matsunoki

Posted
Posted
14 hours ago, IBot said:

Colin,  Within the last 4 or 5 years. 

You did well Ian. Congrats. Nice to hear someone has had some good luck.

All the best. Colin

Shugyosha Grand Master

Shugyosha

Posted
Posted

But you are ridiculously ill informed and dogmatically sticking to a point of view that is diametrically opposed to reality. Try experiencing something first hand before drawing a conclusion. 

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Jean

Jean

Posted
Posted

Jimmy,

 

As a rule of thumb, nobody is entitled to state an opinion on a subject based on ear say.
You don’t know the English Token, though I am French, I know it and furthermore his former chairman Paul B. Is a very good friend of mine and a fine gentleman. It is a very good association based on learning swords in hand or by lectures performed by very learned gentlemen.

I am sure you can get a free invitation to a meeting. 
Subscribe, assist at meetings and then state your opinion, otherwise it is not worth a dime.

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Paz Proficient

Paz

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Nihontocollector752 said:

Not upset at all, really if a society wants to sell then sell, but from what I've heard the Token Society of Great Britain is basically a platform for that. No judgement just facts.

 Sorry fella I'm afraid to say that your talking out your back end, to put it politely. 

 

You "heard" so you don't actually know. I also heard that a dinosaur is roaming around up in Loch Ness. 

 

Back in January I was looking to buy a sword and reached out to the token society, also became a member eventually. No one offered me a sword or opened up their long coat full of swords. I ended up going abroad. 

 

I beleive you can watch zoom meetings and even actual lectures on youtube by people such as Paul ect. I've also reached out to members of the society for buying advice on certain  swords I was looking at, no one again tried to sell me there own stock. And I would love nothing more than to buy local. 

 

Regards 

Paz

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paulb Grand Master

paulb

Posted
Posted

Without wishing to become embroiled in any argument, especially one based on misconception can I draw your attention to the first sentence on our website home page:

"Since its foundation in 1964 the role of The Token Society of Great Britain has been to encourage and support the study, appreciation and preservation of Japanese swords, sword fittings and associated artefacts within the UK"

That is the focus of our meetings and hasn't changed

I had the honour of being the Chairman of the Society between 2016 and 2021 and can say emphatically that the Society is not a "Sales platform".

Do members sell to each other? Yes, I am sure they do. Is that the prime purpose or ever been the focus of any meeting? absolutely not. One only has to look at the meeting reports and agendas set out for the meeting we hold to see this is the case.

I am not sure where this idea originated but please don't give it false credibility through repetition it is just wrong.

Regards

Paul Bowman

 

P.S. regarding "Acredited experts" in our zoom meetings we have had presentations from recognised authorities such as Paul Martin and Eckhard Kremmers. Some of our regional meetings included lectures from experts such as  Ian Bottomley and Ford Hallam. Admittedly others of us have shared ideas and experiences but don't make any claim to expertise. We are enthusiastic and trying to help each other learn

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Nihontocollector752 Collaborator

Nihontocollector752

Posted
Posted

@Dave R please stay out of this one Dave, you're far too sensitive and just because someone states an opposition to your sensitivity doesn't mean what they are saying is untrue. 

 

Since 1964 and they list 3 experts and none of those seem to be in house per se or residing at every meeting. I am not a Token Society of Great Britain affiliate but i know a few and they have their own frustration with the Society.

 

@Paz glad your experience was fruitful and so your opinion formed.

 

@Jean everyone is entitled to an opinion, you're from France right? My my.

 

for a Society of such repute, very little evidence has been put forth by way of society members to disput what i have heard from others. Not only is this selling practice a flaw in Token Society of Great Britain but many forums are the same. It is not a flaw exclusive to them.

 

 

paulb Grand Master

paulb

Posted
Posted

This is not unexpectedly becoming a farce. It is apparent that regardless of what is said here you will take the contrary view. In line with our published  code of conduct if any member has concerns about our activity they should contact a member of the committee   they may find that of greater benefit than sharing their displeasure with you.

I will say it as clearly as I can and for the last time your view whatever its origins is incorrect. Fortunately our membership continues to grow and attendance at meetings is generally high. So we seem to be doing something right for the majority.

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Paz Proficient

Paz

Posted
Posted
47 minutes ago, Nihontocollector752 said:

@Dave R please stay out of this one Dave, you're far too sensitive and just because someone states an opposition to your sensitivity doesn't mean what they are saying is untrue. 

 

Since 1964 and they list 3 experts and none of those seem to be in house per se or residing at every meeting. I am not a Token Society of Great Britain affiliate but i know a few and they have their own frustration with the Society.

 

@Paz glad your experience was fruitful and so your opinion formed.

 

@Jean everyone is entitled to an opinion, you're from France right? My my.

 

for a Society of such repute, very little evidence has been put forth by way of society members to disput what i have heard from others. Not only is this selling practice a flaw in Token Society of Great Britain but many forums are the same. It is not a flaw exclusive to them.

 

 

 

Well I have an opinion formed on evidence and not here say. 

 

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