Not sure of the quality of this item.

[shan]

Hi Guys,

I could do with some help with this item.

I am not entirely sure of its quality but thought it very good.

The Little samurai? has a wonderful expression and you can just about see the ribbed saya in one image.

I think the tree is well done as well as the Nanako.

I cant see any overspill of the gold and very much think the Tree and the persons face is silver.

Perhaps someone more familiar with quality can tell me if this is of any skill?

Thankyou

shan

 

 

 

[Brian]

The nanako is a mess, and that should tell you straight away that this is mediocre average quality mid to late edo work.

Nanako is something that you can tell straight away if it is brilliantly done or not.

 

Brian

[Michael 101]

Sorry Shan,

have to agree with Brian on this one. Very crude work of the late Edo period. Not school specific as too late a period, probably made for merchants or even tourists. May have been made to go with many of the late "Soten" style tsuba that we see. Look at the lack of control on the nanako work in comparison with any published items.

 

F.H. will no doubt love this one !! -

 

Regards

Michael

[shan]

Cheers guys,I thought the carving was quite good of the subject matter.

But i see what you are saying.

thanks again

shan

[Ford Hallam]

F.H. will no doubt love this one !! -

 

 

 

[Rich T]

Hahahahahahah, wrong on so many levels, but maybe more apt.

 

Sorry, back to regular viewing

 

Rich

[Martin]

Rich,

 

that definitely looks better than the original :D

[Guido]

Let me - yet again - quote from my article on collecting. "Sword" of course can be substituted by "Tsuba", "Fuchigashira" and so on:

Some collectors seem to have a positive propensity for choosing those types of swords that are best classed as non-Nihontô. Whatever they are, they're not true Nihontô. They are utterly devoid of any artistic feature. Our misguided friend exhibits his non-Nihontô "treasures" with such obvious pride and pleasure that one is placed in a quandary between insipid pretense and brutal honesty. Perhaps the better course is to avoid outright condemnation and to attempt a patient explanation of the basic requirements of a good Nihontô and a gentle comparison of his selections with those preferred by recognized experts. If the explanations and demonstrations fail to register after a few efforts, and irritation and frustration begin to mount, it may be best to desist and to accept the situation. The collector loves his monstrosities faithfully despite confrontation with genuine examples and rational explanations. In such cases further insistence would appear to be a deliberate effort to undermine his pleasure. He's entitled to the protection of the maxim of the ancient hedonists: "If the pleasure is equal, pushpenny is as good as philosophy". Our collector of non-Nihontô has one advantage: his swords usually cost substantially less than sophisticated choices.

[shan]

Very apt and quite right, Or so you may think…

It seems there are many levels of collectors and each in there own way, enjoy what they have as much had it cost £50 or £50,000.

It’s also to a lesser degree the difference between someone who just enjoys varied levels of skill and craftsmanship and someone who can only see skill and beauty in the most expensive, Papered and/or purest forms of the artists works.” The discerning eye.” That I sadly do not have.

Where as, we may all aspire to own such wonderful masterpieces, it is in fact this desire to possess “that which is intrinsically beyond us” and our own abilities, that fuels these desires in the first place.

It is the desire to covet, that “to collect” is first inspired. We see something we like and we want to posses something similar.

Our Pockets to some extent limit our ability to buy items “beyond” our means and our levels of skill in recognizing what is to us beautiful and wonderful to our own eyes are better than any persons opinion could ever be.

It would be nice to just have something that as you say some people would say Wow..I like that well done!

Or more importantly to me,It is the desire to know roughly when it was made and perhaps by whom.We try to research for ourselves but sometimes we must ask and then question to learn.

If my brother (who lives a short distance away)had bought a book costing £300 and I went and bought the same book would that not be a waste of £300?

If it is stated that it is not what we think then an explanation in brief will help us to understand why it was Not what we hoped. Then next time we go loaded with that information and make less mistakes.

Then when we look to these items in future, we can then see that although not a masterpiece, it is what it is and looks like it looks, because it was made this way by this person.

for the levels that this forum mostly caters for, is why the forum exists in the first place (or so I thought)?

Not surely a load of experts measuring the length of there Katana is it?

“Pah..Look at that Twat,he has only got an Ikkanshi Tadatsuna wakizashi…But I have an Ichimonji Tachi…..Thinks hes a collector…Ha Ha Ha…Lightwight”

 

Or is it just a place to allow more advanced collectors to feel superior because they have deeper pockets and a more advanced collection and knowledge?

The forum is a great educational tool for a great many collectors of all levels and is fantastic when people are treated with a certain amount of respect.

Sometimes this can be lacking.

If we all collected Masterpieces with papers or blades at Juyo what would we need to ask? Are my NBTHK papers Genuine? Will this scratch come out?

If you do not like the item, then please don’t respond to a post, but please don’t get arrogant or cryptic like you can do at times, as it demeans the questioner in more ways than you know.(probably the intention)

Opinions aside and we all want them positive or negative…

We ask because we would dearly like you would help us, not look down at us and Sneer.

Or perhaps its just me.In which case i am sorry i can bring the worst out in most.

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

...OMISSIS...

for the levels that this forum mostly caters for, is why the forum exists in the first place (or so I thought)?

...OMISSIS...

Or perhaps its just me.In which case i am sorry i can bring the worst out in most.

 

Shan, don't take it personally, is not you rather your attitude. Nobody here is judging you as a person, rather your approach to the matter. You're blessed by your geographical position that, together with US West Coast and Japan itself, is a good one to join Nihonto/Tosogu study groups and attend expositions/auctions/events/museums in a way that most of the rest of the world can only dream of (ask Brian if you need feedbacks on this).

No matter how good this board is, you'll never learn as much as following the recommendations given so far, so often and by

so many knowledgeable people.

[shan]

Hi Carlo,

I am blessed with living on a 300 acre farm in the middle of deepest (Darkest) Devon.

I am approx an hour from the nearest City (there is a village shop 2 mile away)and i am always many many hours from any arms Fairs ,clubs,societies,museums and dare i say just about anything related to my hobbies.

I am probably one of 2-3 Known, who have any interest in this field in the entire Devon/Cornwall county.

I am sure it would be very useful to have a study group that could communicate with each other in remote areas by say email or perhaps phone..................But then thats exactly what the forum is for isn`t it?Lots of people of different levels of collecting from all over the place.

Geographical position does not matter so much.

 

I still fail to see why people get so exasperated when i ask about something,I have tried to glean as much as possible but in some areas i am happy to allow others to judge quality.(I am learning though)

99% of what is talked about on this forum is someone asking about something.(even the more advanced collectors ask about items)

This is a knowledge base for people like me and anything below or above my desired level of collecting.

Why pretend it is anything else? :|

Maybe i just dont understand, but i have seen posts from single individuals that ask question after question about things just like me.

They do not profess to have depth of any knowledge,they just ask because they think that is what the forum is for,to help them to understand what they have......am i wrong in thinking this is the required role of the forum in most peoples minds? To join heads and evaluate and educate.

My advice is that if it pains people to answer the "same old questions"..then please don`t. I will not be offended by silence.

But if this is a personality thing, then just ignore mine if i "rub you up the wrong way" if not you may need to ignore all posts.

shan

[Brian]

Shan,

Please see the other post for the reasons, and an explanation why I am suspending your account again.

As stated, it is not personal. You said you would take it easy and not be everywhere at once here, and obviously that didn't happen. You need to slow down.

Yes, others ask questions. However not every day and not everwhere at once. And not about stuff that requires the same advice every time. Just hang back, read and learn. You are enthusiasic and that is great. However you desperately need to hang out with collectors more.

Given your situation, I would arrange a weekend in London or elsewhere every few months, arrange with collectors to meet up, and have some fun chatting and showing stuff. You may be far away from others, but it's not like you have to fly to get anywhere that there are swords.

 

Brian

[Pete Klein]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlBiLNN1NhQ&NR=1

[Ford Hallam]

I wrote this reply on Saturday morning but before I could post it my internet connection went down only to be reconnected this morning. I see Shan has been sent to stand in the corridor again so he‘ll be unable to comment on what I have to offer but never the less there may be something in my ramble that is helpful.

 

I have papered swords and i barely look at them because there is nothing new to learn from them

 

This may be the crux of your problem in assessing quality, Shan. If you can honestly say that there is nothing for you to learn from a decent blade than I really wonder what you see. The best advice I can give you is to teach yourself to see, really see what's in front of you. It's easy to notice the superficial aspects of things, the colour, shape, design ect. but real connoisseurship begins when you begin to apply your judgement to every tiny aspect of the things you're looking at.

 

As you've been told, books are very useful in helping you gain an appreciation of what the best stuff looks like. Pictures will never tell you the whole story though...at best they are an indication of what the object is about. But, with experience and a memory of lots of comparable pieces in mind you will be better equipped to gauge the relative qualities of any given piece.

 

Of course, as you say ( and many others) you buy what you like. I think it was Guido who pointed out that this is hardly a profound statement and that in fact it's practically a non-statement in that it tells us nothing of any use at all. The real problem with this sort of justification is that it seems to miss the point that it is possible to educate and refine ones appreciation and vision of things.

 

By this I'm not suggesting that we will all end up at the same level of understanding or that we should all gradually move to the same tastes. Not at all, only that by making the effort to better see what you like and by really analysing the pieces, the workmanship, the design and overall aesthetic etc you can gradually enjoy a deeper and richer experience of the artistry they display.

 

I know that my disparaging comments about your Akasakaesque ( bit like Kafkaesque only more confused, illogical and devoid of real meaning) tsuba were not pleasant but I didn't make them to put you down or to try and act superior in any way. I have other ways of doing that

My concern was to highlight it's complete lack of any redeeming features or any aspects that might be appreciated on an aesthetic level, or purely craft level for that matter. I maintain that pieces like that only get in the way of any real learning or enjoyment...they are a con and do you a great disservice, apart for being a complete waste of money. Quite seriously, I have bits of scrap metal in my studio that offer more interest to my eyes and I would suggest that the nearest manhole cover could offer you as much or more in terms of pure visual and tactile pleasure.

 

I'm not being sarcastic here, what I'm getting at is the very real danger of trapping yourself at a terribly mediocre level if you don't broaden and inform your view of the subject. Of course, what this means is we end up admiring most those things just out of reach. This is not always a bad thing though because by recognising the qualities of truly great works and better appreciating them we can then bring that honed understanding and sensitivity to bear in our search for hidden treasures of our own.

 

If I could end by offering one concrete bit of advice to you to help you "improve your game" it would be to ignore the subject matter of the fittings you look at. What I mean is, don't let the actual image trick you. If you are considering 2 tsuba, one with a tiger on it and one with some flowers and you absolutely love tigers you may be a little biased in your judgement. This is perfectly natural (and human, so take comfort in that ) but it can subvert our ability to see things more objectively and you end up "buying what you like" even though in terms of quality the flowers were far superior.

 

In a more general sense this also applies to the object themselves. You clearly have a bias, like all of us, of sword related things. Given a choice I bet you'd choose a tsuba ( any tsuba) over a coffee mug any day. In terms of quality and aesthetics that decision may sometimes be the wrong one

 

...and one last tip; don't buy anything for less than £250. :D

[Guest nickn]

its a shame shan is not allowed to reply

i have bought many many very good Japanese swords and fittings for under £250 its where you look and the amount of miles you put into the search i guess its different in south africa not many weekly antique/boot/junk fairs or antique shops???

[Ford Hallam]

Hi Nick,

 

I'm in SA now but I was in England for 18 years up until 3 years ago. I know well what is available :D . If you've got loads of very good swords and fittings for under 250 quid then I reckon you've taken all the bargains Either that, or as I was alluding to in my post, our assessment of what constitutes very good quality may vary somewhat.

 

In any case I assumed my meaning would be understood figuratively (and as a bit of a joke) and not absolutely literally. I've no doubt bargains can still be had but that does presuppose the buyer knows what he's looking at. Shan has repeatedly demonstrated an uncanny talent for finding dross, I was merely attempting to help him improve his eyesight. Perhaps the old saying is right though? "There are none so blind as those who will not see"...