Kiyondo mei translation/potential buy

[Paz]

Hi all I need help with basically an opinion on this tang, on a sword I am looking to get. 

 

I do apologise if this thread belongs in the general section, but I thought I post it here because I would like an opinion on a signiture. 

 

The sword is supposedly by Fujiwara Kiyondo (1827)  student of Kiomora who commit suicide around 1860 and was a famed swordsmith of the shinshinto period. 

 

The first photo is from Nihonto.com and is a genuine signature of Kiyondo.

 

The second photo is the oshigata from Aoi art, which is not guaranteed by them. I just need an extra opinion on the mei and sword. As Aoi art beleive this may be a younger showa era shigemasa. In which case I won't buy.  To me they look genuine, but im not as keen eyed as many people here. I'm hoping @Ray Singercan also lend his helping hand. 

 

The link to the sword 

https://www.aoijapan.com/katanafujiwara-kiyono-sakunot-guaranteed/

 

 

Thanks

Kind regards 

Paz

 

[Geraint]

Dear Paz.

 

These are long odds!  Basically you are hoping to buy a sword by a well regarded maker from a very experienced dealer in Japan, without papers and with his express opinion that it is not genuine, and indeed his educated guess as to who might have made it.  Yes?

 

Then you are asking us to hazard a guess to support your endeavour.  If you want to find out have a look at what a papered Kiyondo katana would fetch and then think how easy it would be for Tsuruta san to submit this for papers and how much he would make if it passed.

 

It's a nice sword and if you like it buy it, but buy it as what it is being sold as.  

 

All the best.

[Gakusee]

When Tsuruta says that he does “not guarantee the signature”, that is a polite way for him to indicate it is gimei.  You need to buy with your eyes wide open. 

[PNSSHOGUN]

Not guaranteed on Aoi heavily implies the sword is Gimei. If it is close enough it may have been already submitted for papers and subsequently rejected. It is all too easy to get caught up in treasure hunting with Japanese swords, none of us are immune to it. In this case you may want to take a step back and assess if you can really outsmart one of the more prodigious dealers in Japan! 

[Paz]

Thanks all. I'm not that well acquainted with shinshinto smiths still learning. Yes the blade looks good, but the reason I posted was because I don't have much knowledge on the mei or the smith. 

 

I did think weather it had failed shinsa, but I just don't know. 

 

What made me post is that he implies that it could be later work. So I don't know if he's doing that on purpose. But it's hard for me personally to tell if this was truly gimei. Il take a look at some kiyondos work. 

 

Thanks. 

[Paz]

1 hour ago, Geraint said:

Dear Paz.

 

These are long odds!  Basically you are hoping to buy a sword by a well regarded maker from a very experienced dealer in Japan, without papers and with his express opinion that it is not genuine, and indeed his educated guess as to who might have made it.  Yes?

 

Then you are asking us to hazard a guess to support your endeavour.  If you want to find out have a look at what a papered Kiyondo katana would fetch and then think how easy it would be for Tsuruta san to submit this for papers and how much he would make if it passed.

 

It's a nice sword and if you like it buy it, but buy it as what it is being sold as.  

 

All the best.

Then my next question would be what exactly is it ? Or close to. From the blade characteristics alone and its shape. 

I very much like the blade indeed. 

 

To me it looks shinshinto rather than showa to. This is due to its size and length. I could be wrong. But Tsuruta again is guessing that it's shigemasa. But again it could be showato where someone signed it off as kiyondo to raise its value. 

 

Thanks 

[SteveM]

No need to second-guess Aoi art on this one. He's basically saying its a gimei Kiyondo, that looks a little bit like Ikkansai Shigemasa. So, that's a good enough guess for me. Meiji-era sword from a swordsmith who maybe, kind of, sort of, has the skill of Ikkansai Shigemasa. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Geraint]

Dear Paz.

 

Just to clarify, the description that accompanies the sword is, "Shape : Wide and thick Katana with deep Sori, longer Kissaki.  The blade is nice shape.  Jigane : Itame Hada well grained with Jinbe attach. visible to see the texture.
Hamon : Nie Deki, Gunome midare with thick Nioikuchi and many Ashi to the Kissaki. In the Ha, there are Sunagashi and Kinsuji from the Monouchi part. Boshi is Midarekomi style".  (Excuse the profusion of capital letters, I copied and pasted the original!)

 

This would not be a description of a Showato but it might describe a Gendai blade.  

 

All the best.

[Paz]

So it's possibly a gendaito not a shinshinto. 

[Gakusee]

Some Hozon and ToHo papered Kiyondo. He was a skilled smith. Compare the chisel strokes and yasurime. 
 

 

[Paz]

Thanks Michael for the information. 

 

I understand its Gimei and possibly not shinshinto. 

 

However as a blade alone it is very tempting. But mysterious as who it may be. 

 

I might pull the trigger and bid on the sword for the price it is. Because the sword has most of the specs that I like.