frank4 Posted September 16, 2022 Report Posted September 16, 2022 Hello all, I have a Gunto sword that seems quite old, and was told it was an souvenir post-WW2 army sword. From what I've read there are a bunch of varieties and I'm thinking this may be a Chinese knock-off so wanted to know what I have here exactly. I'm assuming I have a mixmaster of random parts, as a lot of them are very crude. I just found out that the mekugi was hidden under the menuki, so I have not disassembled it yet. Will do so soon when I have the time. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated! Happy to provide more/closer pics. Thanks in advance. More pics here: https://imgur.com/a/LEQVIpX Quote
lonely panet Posted September 16, 2022 Report Posted September 16, 2022 from what i see, its fake or junk 2 Quote
Brian Posted September 16, 2022 Report Posted September 16, 2022 The saya looks real. We need pics of the blade and tang. Nothing else there is going to tell you anything. Someone has rewrapped the handle poorly, and replaced the same with fake plastic. Or it's a fake using those materials. Blade is everything. In this case the fittings are irrelevant. 2 Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted September 16, 2022 Report Posted September 16, 2022 Here are pics of the blade At best, it is a post-war souvenir, made as a souvenir. At worst it is a Chinese fake. It doesn't have the telltale Damascus steel of modern fakes, yet the steel work is poor. The dimpling on the kabutogane and fuchi are better than your standard fakes, but if made in Japan, the fittings are REALLY poor quality. The saya throat opening is typical for a fake, as is the really poor saya liners. The fakes are usually rough, and not smooth like a real saya liner. On the other hand, the fakes almost never get a couple of details 1. These little 'ears' for lack of a term, have a gap in them that the fakers never get right, yet this one has the gaps 2. Legit tsuba have 4 little 'swish' marks at the top and bottom that the fakers always miss, but this one has them, although they are chiseled in, rather than cast in: However, the tsuba overall is extremely crude and typical for the fakes. I agree, the tsuka appears to have been recently poorly wrapped and the ito was painted white. You can see where the paint overlapped onto the edge of the fuchi. If it is a fake, the fakers did a little more homework than normal. The question comes in, of course - could it be island made? But my same issues hold, as island made swords don't usually have the added details I've highlighted. Quote
Brian Posted September 16, 2022 Report Posted September 16, 2022 Looks like a legit sword to me with legit fittings but a very poor rewrap. Fake same. Need the tang to tell for sure. 1 Quote
Shamsy Posted September 16, 2022 Report Posted September 16, 2022 Fittings are so incredibly varied and range from terribly cast junk to exquisite artisan's craft. The blade looks OK, but with Brian here, need more pictures of the naked blade, especially the tang to provide an informed opinion. 1 Quote
frank4 Posted September 16, 2022 Author Report Posted September 16, 2022 Thanks everyone for yall's feedback. I will get the Mekugi out and the blade exposed so I can get pictures of the tang and further close up of the parts. 1 Quote
robinalexander Posted September 19, 2022 Report Posted September 19, 2022 On 9/16/2022 at 10:44 AM, frank4 said: I just found out that the mekugi was hidden under the menuki, so I have not disassembled it yet. Will do so soon when I have the time. Welcome Frank ...my observation only. If the mekugu was under the menuki (both sides I assume), then that....... 1. Tsuka is incorrectly wrapped as one menuki should be high on the tsuka and the reverse menuki should be set low. I know sometimes the sides differ but it is always one up and one down. This one shows both menuki at same level. 2. If the mekugi peg is hidden by the menuki.....then the peg dosn't go all the way through the blade and tsuka......meaning....either.... a. The tsuka was slid/jammed onto the tang after a short peg had been inserted through the blade ......or ....more likely... b. The tsuka was bound with menuki virtually holding the mekugi pegs in place at that time. ....either way....not good. My thoughts on the blade?...the shinogi is completely shot....non existent.....quality of the steel does nothing to encourage any 'pure' thoughts. I'm with Brian on the saya = real. Most NMB members are more knowledgeable than myself, particularly on blades, but on face value it seems to be a melting pot of pieces and to be sure (to be sure) the only piece I have confidence in being genuine is the saya. The tang may tell a lot more. Feedback is MO only 😊 Rob Quote
Dave R Posted September 19, 2022 Report Posted September 19, 2022 On 9/16/2022 at 10:37 PM, frank4 said: Thanks everyone for yall's feedback. I will get the Mekugi out and the blade exposed so I can get pictures of the tang and further close up of the parts. The itomaki is obviously wrong and badly done, as is the placing of the menuki,so no loss to remove it. Quote
Bryce Posted September 19, 2022 Report Posted September 19, 2022 I am sorry guys, none of that is real including the saya. Pull out any one of your own gunto and compare the small details. Cheers, Bryce 1 Quote
Shamsy Posted September 20, 2022 Report Posted September 20, 2022 5 hours ago, Bryce said: I am sorry guys, none of that is real including the saya. Pull out any one of your own gunto and compare the small details. Cheers, Bryce Agreed, very likely the case, but the least we can do is see the nakago and provide a definitive conclusion. Seen too many swords incorrectly dismissed to jump to 'fake' without being thorough. 4 Quote
robinalexander Posted September 20, 2022 Report Posted September 20, 2022 5 hours ago, Bryce said: I am sorry guys, none of that is real including the saya. Pull out any one of your own gunto and compare the small details. Hi Bryce, I thought the opposite re the saya, but I'm always learning. Would you mind pointing out the 'fake details' you refer to? Rob Quote
Bryce Posted September 20, 2022 Report Posted September 20, 2022 G'day Rob, I agree that from the photos the leather cover on the saya looks not too bad, but it has no clips or laces at the throat and if you look closely you can see the hanger has the same colour and lumpy appearance as that truly offensive tsuba and seppa, so all the koshirae were made together as a set. That makes it very unlikely that the blade will be authentic. Cheers, Bryce 1 1 Quote
robinalexander Posted September 20, 2022 Report Posted September 20, 2022 Ahhhh good eyes Bryce, I can't argue with that, tks mate. Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted September 20, 2022 Report Posted September 20, 2022 I got a bad one in a bunch of 4 bought at auction, a while back. in the pics, it looked good, late-war, but in hand it was too light and the leather was very thin, cracking all over. Crappy wood underneath. Crappy, thin blade, bad nakago. Sold it off in parts, with full disclosure. Later came to find out the ugly stamp on the nakago put it in the camp of likely island-made swords! Wish I hadn't rushed to judgement on it now. 5 Quote
Bryce Posted September 20, 2022 Report Posted September 20, 2022 G'day Guys, I don't know anything about "island made swords". I was just pointing out that none of the koshirae was put together using legitimate type 98 parts. Cheers, Bryce 1 Quote
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