Kai gunto. Your opinion, please

[Weidas]

dear all,

i have received offer to obtain kai gunto sword. It was sold on e-bay, but buyer failed to keep payment obligations..

 

the description of buyer:

This is a Japanese WW II Naval officer`s sword in mountings. The blade is signed "Nosyu Seki ju Hattori Masahiro saku 濃州関住服部正広作", shinogi-zukuri shape. Masahiro is an arsenal sword smith during WWII time priod in Gifu prefecture, listed in John Slough`s book page 99. The blade is in old polish, shows minor aged light surface stain but in good condition. The temper line is wide gunome temper pattern throughout the blade and has deep temper at the tips. The forging grain is tight muji-hada and no forging flaws. There is no bend, no nicks, no crack and cutting edge is sharp. The scabbard is genuine ray skin covered wood scabbard with double hanger, no dents, no crack, no tear and in good condition. The handle is tight fit and tsuka-ito wrapping is in near mint condition. All the metal fittings are original and matched. The lock mechanism works fine. It has original naval sword tassel also in good condition. The blade measures 24" cutting edge, 1 3/16" width, 1/4" thickness at the notch and 36 1/2" in the mountings.

 

unfortunately and still don't have John Slough book, to check out. I was thinking it is showato, made of stainless steel. however, there seems rust on nakago, price also is quite high as for showato

 

could you be so kind to share your opinion about it? It was sold for bit more than $2800 is it not the price more like for gendaito?

[Stephen]

I dont think it is stainless steel like alot of KG's. does it have a showa stamp top part of the nakago is washed out.

[Weidas]

i think it is Seki stamp(partly visible), didn't see any signs of Showa stamp.

[Weidas]

Am i right to assume that it is Showato, not Gentaito?

[Brian]

Vaidas,

With a Seki stamp, I would think you are correct. Showato imho.

 

Brian

[Weidas]

thank you, Brian. In that case, i believe, price is incredibly high.

[YukouYukimura]

Whats the difference between Gendai and showa swords

[loiner1965]

Whats the difference between Gendai and showa swords

gendai basically means traditionally made...where as showa is a time period.....of top of my head any sword made after 1900 etc but most traditionists class showa blades to be machine made or non traditional etc

[James]

Gendai are considered traditionally made whereas Showa are not.

 

grr Steve beat me by 3 mins...

[YukouYukimura]

But on this sword, people have come to the conclusion that it is Showa and not traditionally made?

[Brian]

If that is a Seki stamp, then yes.

Can't be 100% sure, but does appear to be. In hand you would be looking for the telltale signs of oil quenching. Might be partly handmade with foreign steel, but I think in this case it is safer to assume Showato.

 

Brian

[loiner1965]

Gendai are considered traditionally made whereas Showa are not.

 

grr Steve beat me by 3 mins...

your internet signal as farer to travel james......

[Guest nickn]

its oil quenched you can see the hard bright spots at the top of the hamon peaks

[Weidas]

maybe, but still, it is most likely showato. I'm not experienced enough to distinct if it is fully or partly traditionally made and Seki stamp indicates showato direction...

[Guest nickn]

oil quenched showato

[SwordGuyJoe]

While this may be showato, I am not on board with everyone else. This may be gendiato. The hard spots above the hamon peaks could be more due to the seki forging. They would often times have a volcano looking peak with a dot of hamon above them. About the price - I think you are seeing a pretty accurate price for a couple of reasons:

Kyu Gunto that isn't a stainless blade - don't see a WHOLE lot of these, but I would hesitate to say this is really rare. Then add in that it was from a decent smith, then add that there is not much (can't see any from these pics) pitting or rusting from being out at sea - which non-stainless blades are more susceptible to. Then add in the fittings. This has a same saya and it is in good shape, and a tsuka wrap and tassel that both appear to be in good shape.

 

I'd probably put $2,500 on it, but $2,800 isn't unheard of...

 

Just my two cents.

[Weidas]

thanks, Joe. Actually, buying price would be 2,5k, but the, add customs dues and VAT... maybe i made mistake refusing. I bought some items from this seller and i was satisfied, but... as i said i'm not experienced enough yet to obtain questionable items. Seems that "my" kai gunto is still has to be found :D

[Guest nickn]

the bright hard spot at the top of a gunome on oil quendhed swords is within the hamon not above

[gab72]

the bright hard spot at the top of a gunome on oil quendhed swords is within the hamon not above

 

Sorry Nickn, can you post both pics of a hamon on a blade made in traditional manner Gendaito and another for a oil quendhed showato way. I ask you this for understand and learn to see the difference.

Thanks

 

PS:

Sorry for my poor english, but I post from Italy.

[David Flynn]

If this is a second chance offer, I would be very wary. Most second chance offers on ebay are scams (fell for one myself, a few years ago). Ebay washes their hands of the whole thing if one gets stung.