Mystery kyu gunto

[Heinrich]

Not sure if this is even genuine, but I'd like to find out. When I first encountered it I thought it had to be a Spanish reproduction from the 70s, but now I'm not as sure.

 

It has floral decoration along the handle (possibly electrotype?), but none on the guard. Handle appears wooden or horn with wire wrapping. Peened tang, no mekugi.

 

Two identical stamps side by side (that essentially look like "peace symbols" appear in the guard behind the blade. No other markings, from what I can tell. My only guess was South Manchurian Rail, but I'm not even sure if they made any other swords besides shin gunto.

 

I wasn't that interested at first because I thought I had it pegged but the more I dig into it the more I doubt myself and now I'm too invested not to find out where it came from.

-H

[drbvac]

Well there is very little anyone can tell you from the hilt alone and no pictures of the blade itself - there were some Japanese officers blades with similar hilts but rarely had forged blades on them. The metal part looks like a Kyu-gunto army sword but you need a picture of the blade itself.

[Heinrich]

Sorry; couldn't figure out a way around the attachment data limit. I've got more pics, I'm just going to have to fit them into multiple posts.

-H

[Heinrich]

-H

[Heinrich]

-H

[Heinrich]

[Heinrich]

-H

[Heinrich]

-H

[Heinrich]

-H

[PNSSHOGUN]

Cavalry Kyu Gunto, this has a more practical blade in it rather than the parade sabre. As Brian mentioned you can find these with old blades, western style blades like yours, and untempered parade blades. They are uncommon compared to other Kyu Gunto variants. 

[Heinrich]

4 minutes ago, PNSSHOGUN said:

Cavalry Kyu Gunto, this has a more practical blade in it rather than the parade sabre. As Brian mentioned you can find these with old blades, western style blades like yours, and untempered parade blades. They are uncommon compared to other Kyu Gunto variants. 

 

...Is there any reason to doubt its veracity? I couldn't find any arsenal stamps like these, and the fact that it lacked both mekugi mounting and any guard decoration made me hesitate. I know they made western-style peened gunto as well, but the combination of things made me unsure it wasn't just a decent copy.

 

The blade has a decent springiness to it, but that doesn't mean its temper is necessarily thorough.

[PNSSHOGUN]

No doubts of authenticity, as these swords were modeled from western style military sabres there are many similar features. The best examples have traditional blades mounted and family crests, here is an example surrendered by General Baba Masao on display in the Australian War Memorial. As a cavalry officer throughout his career he kept this cavalry Kyu Gunto rather than a regular Shin Gunto:

 

 

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Agree, legit Type 8/19 cavalry sword.  I have another with the exact same shop stamp (unknown shop) on file.

[Heinrich]

1 hour ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Agree, legit Type 8/19 cavalry sword.  I have another with the exact same shop stamp (unknown shop) on file.

 

Cooooool... I wonder if there's any way I can accurately date it.

 

...Is there a thread on how to do proper restoration without damaging it? I hesitate to do much more than go at it with a toothbrush and gun oil, but some of the wire wrap could be tightened and it definitely has some tarnish.

[drbvac]

I wouldn't do much more than you are suggesting - certainly not any abrasive or grinding.  They are in a certain price range because of their military significance and not for the art value or significance of the blade itself.  There are lots of specimens around in much better condition so now you are aware of what you have - do a search for other examples.  All militaria are in the same market and prices are supply and demand with best condition and rarity commanding the highest prices - I used to collect WW2 German military dress daggers and there were many variations and prices all over the map.

[Kiipu]

On 9/1/2022 at 3:17 PM, Heinrich said:

Two identical stamps side by side (that essentially look like "peace symbols" appear in the guard behind the blade.

 

I think these are the stylized characters 内山.  This logo only appears on cavalry swords so far.