How do I tell a fake tsuba from a real one?

[Ced]

Sorry if this is a dead horse topic but I haven't been able to find anything on this (that I could actually understand)... I know traditionally made tsuba should be carved instead of cast but how do I tell which is which?? And what constitutes a "bad design" or a fake patina??

[Spartancrest]

The simple answer is you need some experience and you need to make a few mistakes - like the rest of us.

 

You can always post images of what you are interested in buying, here on NMB, and we will do our best to guide you. I would post just the images if possible, or you may find other people who may be interested in competing with you. Hopefully members would not do this if you make it clear it is something you are likely to buy and have found on your own.

 

It gets more complicated the further into the hobby you go - just check almost any thread and you will see that! 

"Bad design" - I for one think this is in the eye of the beholder, 'Bad workmanship' is something else.

[Bazza]

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step...  Begin with the Board and the Search... feature and plug in tsuba.  Just begin at the beginning and work through the topics and do remember that the Japanese sensei would spend a lifetime studying tsuba.  One of my favorite 'sensitising' threads is here:

I hope you enjoy your journey, may it be long and fruitful.

 

BaZZa.

 

[Curran]

Great reply by BaZZa, and great older thread by Steve W.

 

[Shugyosha]

If you can’t wait to buy, buy papered examples. If you’re sensible and hold off, look at the dealers’ pages in the links section at the top and check out as many papered examples as you can. Avoid eBay and the Japanese auction sites. 
 

Also read through old threads in the tosogu section and learn what you can from them. I’ve been fooled and probably will be again as the fakes are getting better but I’ll probably stick to buying papered examples going forward. 

[Grevedk]

As already suggested, use the combined and infinite wisdom of the NMB. The synergies of that “crowd intelligence”, and sheer amount of accumulated knowledge is both extensive, friendly and close to being your new best friend in starting on your tsuba collecting journey. And - as so often is suggested by some very learned people - consider reading and studying books.

 

A beginners favorite could be:

 

by one of the boards wizards 👍 And again - no commercial is intended 😜

 

/Soren

[Spartancrest]

 

kissakai Posted May 17

Does anyone have the contact details for the author S.J. King who wrote the book 'Collecting Tsuba'?

Although basic I think this is ideal book for someone thinking about collecting tsuba that is clearly laid out. 

 

A few reasonably priced books available in English - I do believe Markus's "Handbook" may be hard to find but great for terminology.

[GRC]

Ced, you can also start off more slowly, with no money down if you want 

If you find you're really getting into it, then start investing in some books.

 

But to start, the MET museum has a great online collection of tsuba that you can browse through, and it ranges in style and age, anywhere from the 16th century to the 19th century.

There are 1,331 results for tsuba:

Search the Collection - The Metropolitan Museum of Art (metmuseum.org)

 

Get a sense of what material (iron, soft metal) and aesthetic you like (too many to list), then start actively searching for examples of those ones online.

Train yourself on what "a good one" of those looks like and then set yourself a goal of getting one like that. Pretty much every tsuba style and motif has been made again and again over the centuries, so you'll find one that is similar (if not the twin) to whatever you're looking for.

 

The museum site is sparse on information, and occasionally wrong. But that's OK in some sense, as the attribution of "what school" made a particular tsuba is fraught with flaws and contradictions from differing ideologies in that regard.

Some "schools" aren't even schools at all, and just represent a certain aesthetic style (especially from the pre-Edo period). This is a major issue that plagues tsuba collecting. Some tsuba have been papered multiple times, either purposefully or accidentally, and sometimes end up with a completely different attribution. And as with any system of certification, there are frauds and some shady deals that get made along the way, in order to pad someone's pocket at the expense of someone else...

 

So I would say buying a papered tsuba first, is "safe-ish", but not without its own pitfalls.

You need to keep in mind that there are a lot of commonly found (more generic) tsuba that have been papered (certified by some organization or another... there are several).

So it's possible that if you are starting off with a smaller budget, that you'll end up spending more than you had to, because you're essentially paying for the costly papers that certify the tsuba to be from "school-X".

With a little bit of knowledge about that particular "school" or style of tsuba, you'll be able to pick one up (without papers) for a lot less money. Some of the more generic school attributions are (or become) painfully obvious, so the papers are completely unnecessary and basically useless.

 

If you're dropping some big bucks on a "high end" tsuba, and want to be more certain about your large expenditure, then I could see the potential for an advantage of having some papers to back it up.

 

Personally, I love learning as much as I can, then hunting for the hidden gems that sometimes get overlooked. 

But hey, to each their own... whatever works for your sensibilities and your wallet

 

Oh and if you're interested, I wrote a primer article for people who are interested in tsuba collecting, but haven't started yet... just to dip your toes in the water. It's in the downloads section, here on the NMB (free of course):

https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/files/file/79-tsuba-diving/

[Ced]

Thanks all. Someone has already sent me a pdf version of some books on tsuba, so I should be able to get started right away 

 

As with swords, I wasn't actually planning to buy any tsuba. Just wanted to be able to appreciate them visually and tell apart trash and treasure, basically. I guess I was confused about it all because online guides and articles tend to use vague descriptions and a huge laundry list of technical terminology, and it didn't really help me understand the difference between a genuine and a fake tsuba. But I have better resources now thanks to the kind people here so that's about to change soon!