First Wild Find - No Markings Visible

[Seth]

I will admit that this particular area has not been where I have been focusing my learning but I came across this piece at an estate sale for a very reasonable price and decided to take it home. It seems that at some point in its life it was used as a brush removal tool due to the grinder polish and the s bend. No identifying marks on the nakago or anywhere else. I haven't had a chance to sit down and take a good long look at it and I apologize for the rushed pics. At the very least it now has some oil on it.

 

Any thoughts on this? I have not seen file marks on the nakago like are shown in the 5th picture before (not that I have had any number of these in my hand either).  

[robinalexander]

Hi Seth, 

On face value, looks like a Type 98.

 

What I find unusual is the colour of the Ito and even more so, there doesn't appear to be any sarute hole in the Tsuka (?). That's a worry in terms of 'original authenticity'.

Rob

[Seth]

59 minutes ago, robinalexander said:

Hi Seth, 

On face value, looks like a Type 98.

 

What I find unusual is the colour of the Ito and even more so, there doesn't appear to be any sarute hole in the Tsuka (?). That's a worry in terms of 'original authenticity'.

Rob

 

I noticed that on the tsuka as well, definitely no hole there.  The saya is metal also for what that's worth. Anything else I should look for on it or grab pictures of that would help? Thanks for taking a look at it.

 

 

 

 

[Seth]

On 8/9/2022 at 9:59 PM, Loona93 said:

So, the story of this one os a bit of a doozy.
Well, I bought this katana arround 3 years ago right before covid in southern Brazil, and only got the time to research it further a couple months ago. I bought it on a flea market believing the word of the seller that this was a old training sword...so that's a great start.
Now I do believe what I bought is in fact one of the most misstreated type 98 in the world, but I'm here to hear a second informed opinion...is that really a 98?
The scabbard was almost cpmpletly sanded down to bare metal, though you can still see the finishing in a few spots, the seppa and tsuba are all glued together with a verry stong glue(if any of you got any ideas of how to get them separated withoud damadging it further, do tell)...worst yet this glue dribbled all over the sword in every tiny crack and now its whitening from time...in short, a disaster.
You can vaaaguely see what I believe is whats left of the company logo that sold/build the sword and a faint 4 on the seppa I believe, also inside the fuchi its inscribed "X IX", not in the photos because I reasembled it already, but if someone is interested I can take a picture tomorrow.
either way, I'd like to know if someone can tell me if this is a real 98, and if it is how can I fix this poor thing up? should I fix it up?

 

Interestingly enough this type 98 also does not have the sarute hole. It is also in question on authenticity. 

 

[PNSSHOGUN]

Need close up photos of the fittings to be certain.

[Seth]

Ok, I was able to get it out this morning and take a good close look at it. I compared it to another in military mounts and it does seem off or of much lower quality. 

 

What my untrained eyes compared it against. 

[Bruce Pennington]

I think it's all late-war stuff.  All the parts look legit, just lower-end workmanship, including the blade.

[mdiddy]

@SethThe sword is legit. The mounts are Type 98 shin gunto, matching parts. The blade shows a well-tended nakago (tang) with correct yasurime (filemarks) and placement of the mekugi-ana (peg hole). I recommend comparing the nakago on your sword to that of the other in question, and you'll see the other sword shows a very crudely shaped nakago with mekugi-ana placement that is off.

 

4 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

just lower-end workmanship, including the blade.

 

I would not be so hasty to write the blade off as lower-end workmanship. The nakago of the blade shows a patina similar to that seen on gendaito, and if you look closely you can see a nioi guchi in parts of the blade that does not feature the tell-tale 'lightbulbs' associated with lower quality oil-quenching. It's a pity the blade is not signed, but I would recommend a more accurate description would be lower-end condition rather than lower-end workmanship, at least until we are able to see more.

[Seth]

 

@mdiddy Thanks for the response I did notice the difference in the nakago between the two. Everything else I own is shinto or older so beyond the forums I can not compare in hand. The other in military mounts I believe to be a koto blade so side by side they are pointless.  I agree that the nakago is much cleaner than the typical Chinese examples that I have seen. I also wish it had been signed but was unable to remove the tsuka before purchasing. If the price wasn't so good I likely would have passed on it, but since I never see them at estate sells or yard sales I rolled the dice. 

 

Is there anything else you would like to see on it specifically or any additional pictures? I guess the big question now would be does it just get locked in the safe or would it be worth a window out of curiosity? In the current state, it is very hard to pick any details out on the blade. Top-notch grinder workmanship...   

[mdiddy]

6 minutes ago, Seth said:

Is there anything else you would like to see on it specifically or any additional pictures?

 

A few close-up pictures of the middle of the blade both sides, try to bring out the nioi guchi and hamon if possible (not ever an easy task). If it's mostly showcasing top-notch grinder workmanship, don't spend too much time on photos. There is no guarantee that we will be able to tell you more than we already have. But, happy to try.

 

At first-glance, I would not recommend pursuing a restoration. Even if it's a gendaito with nice workmanship, economically it's not worth restoring. That said, if you paid estate sale / yard sale prices, you still scored a great deal regardless of the condition. Kudos!

[Seth]

4 minutes ago, mdiddy said:

 

A few close-up pictures of the middle of the blade both sides, try to bring out the nioi guchi and hamon if possible (not ever an easy task). If it's mostly showcasing top-notch grinder workmanship, don't spend too much time on photos. There is no guarantee that we will be able to tell you more than we already have. But, happy to try.

 

At first-glance, I would not recommend pursuing a restoration. Even if it's a gendaito with nice workmanship, economically it's not worth restoring. That said, if you paid estate sale / yard sale prices, you still scored a great deal regardless of the condition. Kudos!

 

I will see what I can capture if anything! No restoration in the cards for this guy but it would be nice to see what's under the destruction.

[Seth]

Tried with flash not sure if that helps or not. My lighting is horrible. It is really hard to see anything on this, for me anyway. 

 

[mdiddy]

14 minutes ago, Seth said:

It is really hard to see anything on this, for me anyway. 

 

I agree, same here. The condition just doesn't want to yield many additional clues. I can't see much more from these, but do see the dark outline of the hamon in places.

 

Here is one of the previous pictures showing the nioi guchi.