Tsuba Repair

[Mark Green]

Hi Gang,

I have a question for you Tsuba guys.

Say you have some old Tsuba, like in the last topic, that is missing some of it's nice brass trim work. Is it kosher for some artist to repair a tsuba that someone wants to mount on a nice sword, with quality other fittings. To make the old Tsuba whole again.

I'm sure the answer would be NO! if the tsuba was signed, and papered, and worth many thousands, but what of those many thousands of so-so tsuba that could be restored to their former self, with the loving hands of some fine artist that knew how to fix these things.

I have seen Ford's work, have you repaired old tsuba?

People remove gemei signitures and repair sword handles all the time.

Do they remove gemei tsuba signitures? Would it be worth it in any way?

Just a question, that many people have asked me in the past. Wanted to get some feedback from the Tsuba lovers.

Thanks, Mark G

[cspage]

Mark, this sounds like a decision that is just up to you. If the tsuba belongs to you, of daimyo quality or just “so-so,” you can do with it what you will. One hopes, of course, you would respect the work of the original maker and appreciate the qualities of the work as it is. Oftentimes old, battered tsuba reflect the age, trials and tribulations of its life, which are things to be appreciated and lend qualities only age can achieve. I’m sure you understand all of this.

 

Probably the only question you really need to ask yourself is whether or not you would regret what you’d done once you’d done it.

 

My humble opinion.

Colin

:|

[Bugyotsuji]

Had a chat with a Shirogane-shi the other day about this. He collects Tsuba as well. One of his mostly perfect old Tsuba had lost a section of Shinchu flower Zogan, and I asked him if he was considering restoring it. He said that it would be nigh on impossible to get the exact mixture of metal to reproduce the same color/colour as the rest of it. In a word, the colour would always look odd.

 

He is a perfectionist, and to illustrate he showed me an iron Kashira and the gold wing of a tiny sparrow that he has just restored. If you look very carefully, and with advance knowledge that it has been repaired, you can see a faint line in the wing feathers, but I would never have noticed it otherwise.

 

Maybe a good idea to experiment with a hopeless Tsuba to start off!

[Bugyotsuji]

PS What about a Tsuba with the hitsu ana blocked off with lead? I am tempted to take the lead out... :|

[Bazza]

Mark, this sounds like a decision that is just up to you. If the tsuba belongs to you, of daimyo quality or just “so-so,” you can do with it what you will. One hopes, of course, you would respect the work of the original maker and appreciate the qualities of the work as it is. Oftentimes old, battered tsuba reflect the age, trials and tribulations of its life, which are things to be appreciated and lend qualities only age can achieve. I’m sure you understand all of this.

 

Probably the only question you really need to ask yourself is whether or not you would regret what you’d done once you’d done it.

 

My humble opinion.

Colin

:|

I recall reading a couple of decades ago that the auction houses of Europe were full of (enthusiastically??) over-restored tsuba... Having seen a few efforts along these lines I agree with the view that you might regret it once it's done. It's not only the metal composition it's the centuries of age and patina that can't be recreated. I have an iron Yoshiro zogan tsuba with bits of brass wire inlay missing and in less than pristine condition that has an old NBTHK green paper (Tokubetsu Kicho) from the first NBTHK Shinsa in the USA - mmmmm - maybe nearly forty years ago. I haven't touched it even to clean it, because once it is done it cannot be undone. Maybe a next-generation collector will have more knowledge. The Greeks have a word for this sort of thing - hubris. I think it fits here nicely. Having said that, I am aware that there are professional (iron? Shakudo?? Shibuichi???) tsuba restorers in Japan. Anyone know anything about them???

Barry Thomas.

[Mike]

I agree with the opinions above. It is impossible to acquire the same look of metal aged for hundreds years, so the odds for regretting this action while it is done, are high.

IMHO if the loss of metal so bothers you, why not order gendai tsuba in the same design of your old one? There are some excellent artists in reasonable cost, such as http://home.a01.itscom.net/ryuken/main.html

 

Mike

[Soshin]

PS What about a Tsuba with the hitsu ana blocked off with lead? I am tempted to take the lead out... :|

 

I have a tauba with a hitsu ana blocked off with lead and I think it looks fine. It adds more age and character to my tsuba. The person who added the lead plug knew what he was doing and did a fine job. I am of the opinion that someone should not trying to "repair" tsuba. I am also of the opinion that cleaning off of dirt and active red rust is fine if is done correctly leaveing the nice natural patina.

[Rich T]

PS What about a Tsuba with the hitsu ana blocked off with lead? I am tempted to take the lead out... :|

 

Why ???? do you think it cheapens the tsuba in some way ??? Lead was a very common metal for sekigane. The Sadahiro has lead hitsuana, the Heianjo, lead nakago sekigane. I would never think of removing either.

 

In regards to the original question, another Why ??? I say leave it all alone. It is what it is, I tend to think, if you want one in excellent condition, then buy one that way.

 

Rich

[Bugyotsuji]

Rich, point taken, but I have a fundamental dislike of lead, even though I know the Romans used it for plumbing etc. I have to say, however, that I do like the look of both of those Tsuba illustrated above, and the lead is almost forgivable in that wonderfully eclectic scenery. Then I notice that the Sekigane or Ategane? of the hitsu-ana is missing in your Tsuba on the right. Would you be tempted to replace that, knowing that the job is reversible, and it can be removed if ever necessary?

 

PS I can hear you saying "NO! WHY ON EARTH?" :lol: from here...

[reinhard]

old Tsuba, that is missing some of it's nice brass trim work.

what of those many thousands of so-so tsuba

 

Mark, sometimes it is difficult to determine whether a worn appearence results from actual wear or was intentionnally made like this. There are tsuba imitating a worn look, including lost inlay, but they were made like this from the very beginning within a particular aesthetic frame. This may sounds strange, but unlike some western taste, where things should be healthy and shiny, Japanese taste also includes a more refined appreciation with a liking for old and worn appearance of decoratve objects. - Unless you are 100% sure of knowing what you're doing and capable of seeing the difference between art-work and "so-so", I strongly recommend NOT to fix anything.

 

reinhard

[Rich T]

Then I notice that the Sekigane or Ategane? of the hitsu-ana is missing in your Tsuba on the right. Would you be tempted to replace that, knowing that the job is reversible, and it can be removed if ever necessary?

 

PS I can hear you saying "NO! WHY ON EARTH?" :lol: from here...

 

well spotted Piers, but you have guessed me correctly. No I would not change this. I wonder if I ever made a set of koshirae, and found a kozuka to matched perfectly, and wanted to be sure that the back of the kozuka was protected from the hard iron ? well, I am not sure, it's not as though I would be using it in daily life !!!!!

 

It may be that at the end of the day, if not there and it looked very odd, and I found someone expert enough to do the job so it looked like it all belonged (maybe not too hard) then maybe, maybe I might.

 

Rich

[Brian]

Another vote here for not doing anything.

I would leave lead hitsu ana, inlays, overlays, etc etc alone.

The only work I would consider on tsuba would be the careful removal of active rust as per the methods we have discussed here before. I think the rest falls under "over restoring" antiques.

Repairing the patina of soft metal tsuba as Ford has done before here is also ok in my eyes as long as tastefully done and by a professional only. However I would say that in restoring any fittings, the "less is more" approach is best imho.

 

Brian

[Ford Hallam]

For professional reasons I hesitated to comment on this thread earlier...I'd hate to think anyone would see it as me trying to drum up work

 

The whole issue of restoration is quite a complex one, in my opinion. I don't believe there are any absolutes but I would very strongly agree with most of the views expressed here that things are best left alone. As Brian rightly points out though, active rust is something we would all agree is a matter to be dealt with so as to limit any further damage.

 

There are though, in my experience, occasions where more intervention can be justified. I think we'd all shudder in horror at the thought of reapplying gold foil to the worn areas on a Momoyama period shakudo tsuba. Even though this could actually be done invisibly. We have come to appreciate the venerable look of age...because we're all quite refined people here, arn't we?:D ...not like the philistines who like everything all bling bling

 

On the other hand, some years ago, I did a little job for a major auction house in London ( which will remain nameless, to protect me from being sued ) that required the creation and inlaying of a tiny gold spiral into a beautiful shakudo tsuba by quite a big name. I've seen it since and I can't even see which bit it was that I replaced. Before though, there was an awful pink, gaping scar where the original inlay had fallen out. I feel absolutely confidant that had the maker been available he'd have popped it back with no hesitation. I feel as though I was simply acting on his behalf .

 

My point being, each piece can be considered on it's own merits and having done that the options available to you in terms of actual restoration can be considered. The biggest problem though, will be to find someone reliable enough to do the work...and honest enough to decline to task if they are not up to doing it perfectly. So on balance I come back to advising, as does everyone here, that things are generally best left alone.

[Mark Green]

Thanks Gang for all your great replies.

I feel as most of you do, that making changes to a very old artifact, that will be around many thousands of years after I am long gone, is not a thing to do unless justified in some 'good' way.

I do think that Ford had a good point, that if the original artist of a piece could have say, he most likely would say "fix the darn thing as it was ment to be". If you can, that is.

We have swords polished all the time, as they were ment to be 'in polish'. As I am sure the smiths would want it.

So, I guess it comes down to the usual debate about altering any artifact. Reinhard's point is very well taken. Few, if any really know!

I think Rich's examples are good choice to let be. I can see no good reason to fix anything here.

Here is my example:

 

As you can see on this late period F&K there are a couple coral 'seeds' missing. While these are nice art, they are not that old, and not 'that' valuable. If a jewler thought he could fix this, I would likely say why not. I'm sure the maker would want them fixed. Or I would think so, at least.

Another example:

 

This Heinjo is missing most of the twist trim on this one side. The other side is perfect.

This one would be a much tougher choice, as to repair it, I feel a good bit of patina would be disturbed. And as said above, matching the brass would be iffy at best.

But, if someone could, what do you think. Fix, or not?

Just a few examples to keep this great topic moving.

[cspage]

Perfect example of Not...for all the above reasons.

 

Colin

[reinhard]

Mark, I can see your point now. The missing coral is a nuisance, for it was there once, without doubt. - Since this F/K is not the pinnacle of tosogu, you should ask yourself: Is it worth the pain? From a monetarian point of view, I'd say "No". First of all, many jewellers will tell you, they are capable of doing this, but most of them will present you with an unsatisfying result. Some of them will damage the surrounding area and its patina, for many western jewellers are not familiar with Tosogu and their particular surface. If you do find someone capable of restoring this object in a perfect way, it will probably cost you more than it's worth. - Your choice.

As for the Heianjo-style tsuba: One side being rubbed and worn is not that bad. Like you said: Replacing all the missing inlay will probably change its appearence drastically. If you're unlucky, it will look like Disneyland afterwards. You better not have it "restored".

 

reinhard

[Ford Hallam]

As someone trained both in the European jewellery tradition and classical Japanese methods I want to emphasise this point Reinhard makes;

 

many jewellers will tell you, they are capable of doing this, but most of them will present you with an unsatisfying result. Some of them will damage the surrounding area and its patina, for many western jewellers are not familiar with Tosogu and their particular surface.

 

Jewellers shouldn't be allowed anywhere near tosogu

[Mark Green]

Thanks All.

I have no plans to touch the tsuba, but may consider fixing the F&K. I would like to use them with a mounting, and I feel they would look much better fixed. And I trust the very capable person doing the fix.

I will send along pics if I do.

Mark G

[Bugyotsuji]

Thanks All.

I have no plans to touch the tsuba, but may consider fixing the F&K. I would like to use them with a mounting, and I feel they would look much better fixed. And I trust the very capable person doing the fix.

I will send along pics if I do.

Mark G

 

Pics would be great, whichever way you cut the cake! Thanks.

[stevel48]

what about a case where all of the brass is missing. I'm sure it was beautiful in it's day. I would love to have a copy made so you could keep the old and have a new copy to show it's original configuration. (the sword is coming in thsi week so I have some active rust to remove on the tsuba as you can see) I'll do a wash with hand soap and then use bone to scrape away the rust. I hear that that's the way to do it.

-S

[Mark Green]

Hi Steve,

From the blury pic I can't see where the brass is missing.

Take some good pics when you get it in.

You could likely get one made, but that would be a tough one, and very expensive.

Send some more pics. I'm not sure the brass is missing

Mark G

[stevel48]

its all gone

 

 

[Mark Green]

Hi Steve,

 

I like your tsuba a lot. I'm still not sure there was ever any brass in those channels. It may have just been carved the way it is. It is very nice as is.

Mark G

[Jean]

I agree with Mark, not sure there were any brass inlays. I have never seen any tsuba (how old they may be) missing all their inlays.

[stevel48]

I'm a rookie. I would agree that it probably never had brass inlay since there are no traces of brass.

[Pete Klein]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wabi-sabi

 

This is a good start to understanding the answer to the original question.

IMHO...

 

PS: I am also a firm believer in not having face lifts. (lol)

[docliss]

Come on guys! This tsuba of Steve's is late, Heianjō-zōgan work, with a naturalistic, karakusa design, of not very good iron and with fine lines engraved around the channels for the missing brass inlay. Yes, it is quite unusual for all of the inlay to be missing, but who knows what indignities the tsuba has suffered in its past. Wabi-sabi might dictate the omission of some of the inlay in order to present the impression of wear, but not to this extreme extent.

 

Regards, John L.

[stevel48]

What if it was gold work and not Brass? Is that possible? wAs gold used then? I would expect the soft gold to wear after hundreds of years.

 

 

Gold inlay

[Pete Klein]

Wabi-sabi might dictate the omission of some of the inlay in order to present the impression of wear, but not to this extreme extent.

 

The concepts of wabi and sabi do not dictate nor do they rely upon any 'impression' of wear which would be obfuscation at best. They connote the acceptance of degradation and the beauty to be found in apparent beauty lost.

 

You may quote me. LOL!

[stevel48]

I cleaned it in warm soapy distilled water with a sonic toothbrush for an hour and found what brass remains. I bet it was a work of art in its day.