Nagamitsu for first nihonto

[ChrisW]

If you're talking high-end art blades, then battle damage can be a detractor; but it is not always seen as a flaw. In this case, yes it is absolutely a flaw and likely fatal because it probably goes through the hamon entirely. This type of damage renders the blade inoperable from a usage standpoint, which is a major factor in how a blade can be treated and valued as an art piece.

From a militaria collector's standpoint, it is perfectly acceptable; you're buying the story in a way, even when the story itself is unknown. Many antique nihonto do have battle damage; when it is specifically a cut into the sword from another blade it is called kirikomi and they are viewed as somewhat a vindication of honorable use. Typically kirikomi are left because they can cut quite deep into the mune.

The damage on your sword however is not a kirikomi as it is edge as opposed to spine damage and likely to be resultant from improper use by someone's children playing with the sword. Edge damage is called hakobore, as Ray pointed out earlier. However, for less than a grand, you're buying the rare mounts and the blade can be treated as military curiosity. Are you likely to ever make money off of it? Probably not. However, its a great conversation piece and still an interesting relic of the war. And as a first piece, many of us have done worse, so I wouldn't worry too much about it! But I highly recommend hitting the books and attending any local sword group meetings you can find!

I think you've been bitten by the nihonto bug, so I welcome you to join us and study all you can!

Also, here is a previous thread if you're curious about kirikomi:

Do note that hakobore are not necessarily treated the same.

[DDangler]

52 minutes ago, ChrisW said:

If you're talking high-end art blades, then battle damage can be a detractor; but it is not always seen as a flaw. In this case, yes it is absolutely a flaw and likely fatal because it probably goes through the hamon entirely. This type of damage renders the blade inoperable from a usage standpoint, which is a major factor in how a blade can be treated and valued as an art piece.

From a militaria collector's standpoint, it is perfectly acceptable; you're buying the story in a way, even when the story itself is unknown. Many antique nihonto do have battle damage; when it is specifically a cut into the sword from another blade it is called kirikomi and they are viewed as somewhat a vindication of honorable use. Typically kirikomi are left because they can cut quite deep into the mune.

The damage on your sword however is not a kirikomi as it is edge as opposed to spine damage and likely to be resultant from improper use by someone's children playing with the sword. Edge damage is called hakobore, as Ray pointed out earlier. However, for less than a grand, you're buying the rare mounts and the blade can be treated as military curiosity. Are you likely to ever make money off of it? Probably not. However, its a great conversation piece and still an interesting relic of the war. And as a first piece, many of us have done worse, so I wouldn't worry too much about it! But I highly recommend hitting the books and attending any local sword group meetings you can find!

I think you've been bitten by the nihonto bug, so I welcome you to join us and study all you can!

Also, here is a previous thread if you're curious about kirikomi:

Do note that hakobore are not necessarily treated the same.

Thank you for the detailed response Chris!!

 

I understand the hakobore is most likely fatal and the blade will never be what it could have been. That being said, I enjoy items with character. A life lived so to say. I plan on comparing the hakobore to different rifle barrels that were used throughout the Pacific during WW2. If I can’t get a very good match I will succumb to the idea it’s hakobore from some kid playing samurai in the back yard. Either way it will be a nice addition to my collection and it will have a good home where it is respected till I’m long gone. The monetary value doesn’t do anything for me, it’s more about the history of any given item and the life it’s lived. 
 

That being said, I read a thread earlier regarding spirits that purportedly follow some of these nihonto around. I am of Native American ancestry so I consider myself spiritual. I don’t know if I would go so far as to say I’m superstitious though. My question now is, is there any Japanese ceremony that one could do to honor the nihonto when it gets here and gets added to the collection? 
 

Thanks for any insight, advance apologies if it’s a taboo topic. 

[DDangler]

It is supposedly at the post office!! Picking it up this afternoon after work!! 

[DDangler]

Ok, I have gotten it home and figured out how to get it apart. There is unfortunately no star stamp that I can see. However, there is a star stamp on much of the hardware. 
 

Also, something I didn’t know is the tip of the blade is wider than the middle and then it widens back out to the same width as the tip just before the tsuba. 
 

 

[DDangler]

[DDangler]

[DDangler]

Spine dimensions as measured with a caliper. 

[Bruce Pennington]

Thanks for the added pics Joel!  I have 2 other recorded Nagamitsu fittings with that same star.  I believe it to be a sword shop logo, and apparently it's one working closely with Nagamitsu!  We don't know what shop it is associated with.

 

The fatter tip on the blade is quite normal and is found on most blades.  There is a full discussion about this feature on one of the NMB threads.  Believe it makes the tip stronger for jabbing.

[DDangler]

6 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Thanks for the added pics Joel!  I have 2 other recorded Nagamitsu fittings with that same star.  I believe it to be a sword shop logo, and apparently it's one working closely with Nagamitsu!  We don't know what shop it is associated with.

 

The fatter tip on the blade is quite normal and is found on most blades.  There is a full discussion about this feature on one of the NMB threads.  Believe it makes the tip stronger for jabbing.

Thanks Bruce!! Without the star is that making us think this is not a traditionally made blade and was most likely not used by an officer in the IJA? 

[Ray Singer]

No, that is not the case. The absence of a stamp generally indicate traditional methodology (a gendaito). I am not aware of any Ichihara Nagamitsu being showato. 

[DDangler]

47 minutes ago, Ray Singer said:

No, that is not the case. The absence of a stamp generally indicate traditional methodology (a gendaito). I am not aware of any Ichihara Nagamitsu being showato. 

Thanks for the info Ray. Does the absence of a stamp definitively prove it was not used by the IJA? 

[Ray Singer]

The koshirae shows it was used by the military.

[DDangler]

11 minutes ago, Ray Singer said:

The koshirae shows it was used by the military.

Ok. I’m confused. I’ve read around this site that if the blade doesn’t have the RJT stamp the blade wasn’t made for the military but for private citizens. Am I misunderstanding that? 

[Ray Singer]

A star stamp indicates that the blade was made by an RJT smith. The majority of gendaito (traditionally-made Japanese swords produced during the war) have no stamp.

 

http://www.japaneseswordindex.com/gendai2.htm

[DDangler]

3 minutes ago, Ray Singer said:

A star stamp indicates that the blade was made by an RJT smith. The majority of gendaito (traditionally-made Japanese swords produced during the war) have no stamp.

 

http://www.japaneseswordindex.com/gendai2.htm

Ichiharo Nagamitsu was an RJT smith though. 

[Ray Singer]

Yes, a star stamp indicates that the blade was made by an RJT smith however not all RJT smith's swords contain a star stamp in all cases.

[DDangler]

1 hour ago, Ray Singer said:

Yes, a star stamp indicates that the blade was made by an RJT smith however not all RJT smith's swords contain a star stamp in all cases.

Ah. I was not aware there were military swords without stamps. Thank you for clearing that up. 

[Bruce Pennington]

There were 400-500 smiths working during the war (300 in the Seki area alone) that made over 2 million blades (that number includes the more mechanized-made NCO blades).  A great many of these blades were sold to and through private sword shops who fitted them out in military koshirae, both Army and Navy, fittings.  The percentages are not known, but a certain percent were gathered by arsenals.  Like Ray said, the majority of blades never received any arsenal stamps, so I suspect there were more swords sold through private shops than through arsenals and military officer clubs. 

 

RJT qualified smiths were also making and selling blades both for the Army and for private shops.  The blades sold privately didn't receive the star stamp, but were, no doubt, made the same way as those sold to the Army.

[DDangler]

20 minutes ago, Bruce Pennington said:

There were over 500 smiths working during the war (300 in the Seki area alone) that made over 2 million blades (that number includes the more mechanized-made NCO blades).  A great many of these blades were sold to and through private sword shops who fitted them out in military koshirae, both Army and Navy, fittings.  The percentages are not known, but a certain percent were gathered by arsenals.  Like Ray said, the majority of blades never received any arsenal stamps, so I suspect there were more swords sold through private shops than through arsenals and military officer clubs. 

 

RJT qualified smiths were also making and selling blades both for the Army and for private shops.  The blades sold privately didn't receive the star stamp, but were, no doubt, made the same way as those sold to the Army.

Great info!! Thank you Bruce. 
 

I’ve read about sending blades off to have restored. Is that an option or is mine too far gone? 
 

I would like to clean some of the grime off and get a better look at the hamon. What would you suggest I use to accomplish this?