Nagamitsu for first nihonto

[DDangler]

Hey guys, 

 

I am new and found this forum because I made a fairly large purchase of a sword on eBay, currently awaiting its arrival. I know pretty much nothing about Japanese swords and made the high bid on a whim and a lot of beer. 
 

I do collect pre Vietnam era military items and at any rate this sword will go well with the rest of the collection. 
 

I look forward to learning about these items and making some new friends here. 
 

I can post pics from the auction or wait until it arrives to add pics. You guys tell me what you want. 
 

thanks for reading and any help!!

[Ray Singer]

Joel, share what photos you already have here in your post. You just missed a meetup of Japanese swords collectors in Florida last weekend. Shoot me a note if you want to be notified about the next time we meet. 

[DDangler]

8 minutes ago, Ray Singer said:

Joel, share what photos you already have here in your post. You just missed a meetup of Japanese swords collectors in Florida last weekend. Shoot me a note if you want to be notified about the next time we meet. 

Thanks Ray, adding them now. I don’t know what I would have done at such meeting except walk around in awe!! Absolutely shoot me a PM next time there is something going on. I’m always ready to make new friends. 
 

These are the pics from the eBay listing. I am fully aware of the damage on the blade and not bothered by it. It actually intrigues me and sparks my imagination that maybe this sword was actually used in a pivotal battle. 

[DDangler]

[ROKUJURO]

Joel,

 

I think that it was a very nice blade until some idiot tried it on some hard matter.

[DDangler]

12 minutes ago, ROKUJURO said:

Joel,

 

I think that it was a very nice blade until some idiot tried it on some hard matter.

Thanks Jean!! I’m certainly not happy about the damage to the blade. However, I am going to try to research it as much as I can and still hope the damage may have been made during some fighting.  With that thinking and the adventure of the research I would not hesitate to make the same decision today while sober. A few of those dents look like they could be close to the size of a rifle barrel. I will do more investigation once I get my hands on it. 
 

At any rate, I may have overpaid but I’m satisfied with the purchase. Everyone learns somewhere, right!? Lol

 

I presume the rest of the sword looks good? 
 

What’s the deal with the two buttons? Seller seemed to insinuate that was odd. 
 

Thanks for all the interest!!

[Ray Singer]

Joel, please see below.

 

Ichihara Nagamitsu

http://www.japaneseswordindex.com/naga.htm

 

Type 3 koshirae

http://ohmura-study.net/952.html

[DDangler]

9 minutes ago, Ray Singer said:

Joel, please see below.

 

Ichihara Nagamitsu

http://www.japaneseswordindex.com/naga.htm

 

Type 3 koshirae

http://ohmura-study.net/952.html

Thank you for that info, it appears mine is a genuine Nagamitsu. Any idea what the handle is made of? Does this resemble any known Japanese military examples? I haven’t been able to find any that match on google. 

[DDangler]

Also, thank you guys for being so welcoming and forthcoming with info.  I know I am new and probably full of dumb questions so thank you all for the warm welcome. 

[Ray Singer]

Joel, please review the second link above to show examples of this known type of WWII gunto koshirae. 

[DDangler]

11 minutes ago, Ray Singer said:

Joel, please review the second link above to show examples of this known type of WWII gunto koshirae. 

Thanks Ray, I missed that second link. It all sounds foreign to me at the moment. Hopefully it will take eventually and I will understand. 
 

Any thing I should do to it once I receive it to keep it as preserved as possible? 

[Ray Singer]

You can keep the blade oiled. Unfortunately though it appears that the sword is fatally flawed, given the depth of the hakobore (chips in the edge). 

[PNSSHOGUN]

Hi Joel welcome to the forum, now I hope you did not pay too much for this sword as the large chip (called Hakobore) could easily be considered a FATAL flaw as it appears to go all the way through the Hamon. This relegates the sword to a purely decorative item and puts a hard cap on any resale value, should you wish to recover your money or upgrade to better swords in the future.

[DDangler]

11 minutes ago, PNSSHOGUN said:

Hi Joel welcome to the forum, now I hope you did not pay too much for this sword as the large chip (called Hakobore) could easily be considered a FATAL flaw as it appears to go all the way through the Hamon. This relegates the sword to a purely decorative item and puts a hard cap on any resale value, should you wish to recover your money or upgrade to better swords in the future.

I paid less than $1000 for it. Which is still probably way too much. I was intrigued by the damage and bought it on the potential it’s damage from a fight and not some kid in the backyard trying to cut through steel pipes. I don’t know how I will be able to prove either. It will be displayed in my office with a lot of other WW2 pacific theater artifacts as long as it’s a legitimate sword. I do not need anything perfect and find comfort in wabi sabi. 

[PNSSHOGUN]

Hi Joel, that's definitely quite a lot of money for a sword like this with such significant damage as you are basically paying for the mounts rather than the blade.

[DDangler]

22 minutes ago, PNSSHOGUN said:

Hi Joel, that's definitely quite a lot of money for a sword like this with such significant damage as you are basically paying for the mounts rather than the blade.

Yeah, I figure. 
 

So the general consensus or first thoughts are this is not any sort of damage that would have came from a battle? 
 

Thanks for taking your time to reply to my presumably silly questions. 

[Ray Singer]

More likely I think that this is post-war abuse. It reminds me of a Ko-Bizen tachi found here in Florida, in which the teenage son had been testing the edge on a concrete block. This type of "destructive test cutting" has unfortunately been the death of many swords which came here after the war. 

[PNSSHOGUN]

Without any provenance it's impossible to determine what caused the damage. More likely than not it was caused during post war "operations" in the backyard.

[DDangler]

Well hell. It will still look good hanging on the wall. Next time I won’t let some imaginary romanticism sway my decision. 

[Brian]

Battle damage never enhances a sword. It is always a negative.
In this case, you can be pretty sure it wasn't from a battle anyways. Not in an area that is used to strike. And if it was, it would still be a huge negative.
The blade is the important part of a Japanese sword. Condition is everything.
But it's a lesson I am sure you will take to heart, and maybe your next one will be a winner. Still have value in what is there, but more to a militaria guy than a Japanese sword collector.

[Bruce Pennington]

Joel,

On the double release buttons - they tend to be seen on upgraded fittings and quite often on blades made for the Army RJT system with a traditionally made blade in them. 

 

Both Endo Nagamitsu and Ichihara Nagamitsu were RJT qaulified smiths, and I believe yours to be Ichihara Nagamitsu based on the mei and shape of the end of nakago.  When you get it, will you check the back edge of the nakago for me?  Sometimes there are stamps and numbers back there.

 

Oddly, to me, most of the Nagamitsu blades I have seen do not have the RJT star stamp, so they were likely sold to the private market.  But the presence of the double release buttons still posit the possibility this blade was made traditionally.

 

As to the guys saying the blade is wrecked due to the fatal flaw, they are speaking from a perspective of collectors who really get into high-quality, high-value blades.  We all come to sword collecting with our own flavors.  I know there are a few guys that specifically look for battle damaged swords, and appreciate the life-of-the-blade kind of collecting.  I only collect WWII swords (ok, I have a couple pre-WWII ones, too!), and value them, regardless of market value, for the history and lives they represent.  So, enjoy your new Rinji Seishiki (the latest updated name of this version of fittings)!

 

You can read about the history and development of this style HERE and HERE.

[vajo]

Rare Tsuka

[DDangler]

9 hours ago, Brian said:

Battle damage never enhances a sword. It is always a negative.
In this case, you can be pretty sure it wasn't from a battle anyways. Not in an area that is used to strike. And if it was, it would still be a huge negative.
The blade is the important part of a Japanese sword. Condition is everything.
But it's a lesson I am sure you will take to heart, and maybe your next one will be a winner. Still have value in what is there, but more to a militaria guy than a Japanese sword collector.

Thank you for the insight Brian. 
 

I should probably bring any future purchases to you all prior to purchasing. Lol

[DDangler]

1 hour ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Joel,

On the double release buttons - they tend to be seen on upgraded fittings and quite often on blades made for the Army RJT system with a traditionally made blade in them. 

 

Both Endo Nagamitsu and Ichihara Nagamitsu were RJT qaulified smiths, and I believe yours to be Ichihara Nagamitsu based on the mei and shape of the end of nakago.  When you get it, will you check the back edge of the nakago for me?  Sometimes there are stamps and numbers back there.

 

Oddly, to me, most of the Nagamitsu blades I have seen do not have the RJT star stamp, so they were likely sold to the private market.  But the presence of the double release buttons still posit the possibility this blade was made traditionally.

 

As to the guys saying the blade is wrecked due to the fatal flaw, they are speaking from a perspective of collectors who really get into high-quality, high-value blades.  We all come to sword collecting with our own flavors.  I know there are a few guys that specifically look for battle damaged swords, and appreciate the life-of-the-blade kind of collecting.  I only collect WWII swords (ok, I have a couple pre-WWII ones, too!), and value them, regardless of market value, for the history and lives they represent.  So, enjoy your new Rinji Seishiki (the latest updated name of this version of fittings)!

 

You can read about the history and development of this style HERE and HERE.

Thank you Bruce, this is the kind of stuff I want to learn about my new sword!! 
 

I am so excited to get it that I keep checking tracking every 5 mins. 
 

Will definitely take some better pics when it arrives and I figure out how to get the tsuka off. 

[DDangler]

13 minutes ago, vajo said:

Rare Tsuka

That’s potentially good news!! Do we have any idea what it’s made of? 

[Baba Yaga]

12 hours ago, Brian said:

Battle damage never enhances a sword. It is always a negative.

 

 

It's "always a negative" I'd change that statement to sometimes and depends. Always is falsely. 

[DDangler]

Now I’m a little worried. Was looking at lots of other nihonto and notice mine is the only one I can find with two holes in the tang. 
 

is this a problem? 

[Ray Singer]

8 minutes ago, DDangler said:

Now I’m a little worried. Was looking at lots of other nihonto and notice mine is the only one I can find with two holes in the tang. 
 

is this a problem? 

 

 It is very normal. See attached.

 

[Rich S]

Joel

 

Not a problem, just a rarer way of mounting the tsuka.  I have a Nagamitsu in exactly the same mounts. 

[DDangler]

14 minutes ago, Ray Singer said:

 

 It is very normal. See attached.

 

 

13 minutes ago, Rich S said:

Joel

 

Not a problem, just a rarer way of mounting the tsuka.  I have a Nagamitsu in exactly the same mounts. 

Thanks for clearing that up for me gentlemen. 
 

Crisis averted!! 
 

I can’t believe how excited I am for this sword. I have been spending every second I can researching all I can.