Wakizashi assistance

[Fritz]

Hello, I'm giving some assistance to a friend of mine here locally that has this sword, I've been able to give him the basics of the piece( Thanks to much reading here, Thanks guys ) But I've come here to see if I can get him some in depth info as to the mei and fittings and age. The sword cutting edge is approx 21.5" and total length is 28.5", pretty nice blade in good polish with a very nice temper. Any info would be apprieciated, not looking for value just info. Thanks

 

Fritz

[Fritz]

One more pic, I'll try to get a pic of the balde tommorrow in the sun light to show the hamon.

[John A Stuart]

Well, Fritz. it is signed Muramasa. Not the big guy. need blade pics. John

[YukouYukimura]

Muramasa from what I can tell... although don't take my word for that.

 

Ah, John beat me to it! Also, heres the signature right side up

[Fritz]

I'll get some pics in good light tommorrow, my office lighting isn't that good for blade pictures. Any thoughts on period?

 

Fritz

[Joseph P.]

I love that tsuka! I'm looking forward to blade pics.

 

Jo

[reinhard]

Come on boys, who's going to tell him?

 

reinhard

[Fritz]

Come on boys, who's going to tell him?

 

reinhard

 

Hmmm, OK whats up?

[Fritz]

OK, anyhow, here are a couple pics of the blade. Any info? thanks

 

Fritz

[Fritz]

no other info? Period, good/bad blade? I'm not looking for a price just info on this nothing more. Thanks

 

Fritz

[YukouYukimura]

It looks good to me, the fittings are very nice. I believe the hamon is CHOJI, the sword appears to be missing seppa? (spacers between the tsuka and tsuba, and the tsuba and the habachi) ?

 

As to period, I can't place it as my knowledge is limited.

[loui]

Nice modest mounts, not high quality but average type stuff - which is perfectly fine. From the limited pictures of the blade is looks ok, no idea if there are any flaws or problem areas. It is in good polish so that is half the battle - ie the whole package can be enjoyed as is.

 

The signature is pretty poorly chiseled and is most likely gimei but that is ok too. Looks to be shinto from the pics, would have to see more to make an accurate assessment - could be shinshinto, could be koto.

 

Enjoy the blade as is, nice little piece of art you have there.

 

Louis

[Gunome]

Hi,

 

May I am wrong, but I saw a black dash on the blade, upper the shinogi at about 10 cm upper the habaki. Looks like a big ware. :?

 

sebastien

[Fritz]

Thanks, I'll pass this on, I have some more pics of the blade to post later. Sebastian, there is no spot on it like what you see in the pic it's a reflection on the blade, from looking at it it doesn't show any flaws or openings in it. If any more info is out there let me know so I can pass this on. Thanks guys!

 

Fritz

[YukouYukimura]

The signature is pretty poorly chiseled and is most likely gimei but that is ok too. Looks to be shinto from the pics, would have to see more to make an accurate assessment - could be shinshinto, could be koto.

Louis

 

I was going to say something about the signature, but decided against it. I agree the signature does not look right, but those are just my 2 cents.

[reinhard]

The signature is pretty poorly chiseled and is most likely gimei but that is ok too. Looks to be shinto from the pics, could be shinshinto, could be koto.

 

Gimei? No problem. Fittings of the poorest kind? "Modest but average". Age or quality of a blade? Who cares? It's probably Japanese and therefore a little piece of art. Let's reduce NMB to the question: Is it of Japanese origin or not? We can take things easy again and play the game like most of the Meiji boys did. No more painstaking research, no more disappointing answers. It looks Japanese from a distance? Great!

 

Any more questions?

 

reinhard

[loui]

The signature is pretty poorly chiseled and is most likely gimei but that is ok too. Looks to be shinto from the pics, could be shinshinto, could be koto.

 

Gimei? No problem. Fittings of the poorest kind? "Modest but average". Age or quality of a blade? Who cares? It's probably Japanese and therefore a little piece of art. Let's reduce NMB to the question: Is it of Japanese origin or not? We can take things easy again and play the game like most of the Meiji boys did. No more painstaking research, no more disappointing answers. It looks Japanese from a distance? Great!

 

Any more questions?

 

reinhard

 

Trashing a new collectors sword doesn't really accomplish very much, in fact it usually turns them right off this board. Brian was mentioning in another post the other day that many people just join the board post a few times and then are never heard from again - from what I gather it is because of your exact "alpha dog" attitude you mention all the time in an effort to make it seem like you really aren't trying to be the king of the hill.

 

I am sure you'd like to just see the best of the best on here all the time so we could be in sword heaven but that isn't the case and it never really will be. The bottom line is that the majority of the swords we will see on here will be the type just like he posted. Maybe you could post up your top of the line collection in a section dedicated to the best of the best? That way the plebes wouldn't intrude on your day and activities.

 

I suspect this thread will end up being locked like most of the others you contribute to though, well done - again. It's funny to see the revolving circle of people that show up on this board, your type has come and gone over the years, you come in and make a bunch of newbies feel like idiots then leave to some other board where I'm sure you'll do the same thing again and again.

 

It's too bad though, too bad for this board and too bad for potential collectors.

 

Go ahead and make some smart ass responses, I won't be on here to see them, but I will come back to see how things are in a couple of years - and I bet you'll be gone:)

Cheers,

 

Louis

[Fritz]

Alrighty then, there must be an issue with this piece, lets just have it please. I posted this for a friend , this piece does not belong to me and I'm just trying to offer some assistance to a friend, plain and simple. as for being a newbie, yes to Japanese swords I am, but to collecting no, I've been collecting swords and military items for over 30 years, trust me no offense taken at all being called a newbie does not bother me a bit. I just like being told the truth and facts, thats all I have asked for here so if there is something wrong just tell me, nobody likes being stung and it's happened to all of us, and if you say you havn't well your lucky. so is there an issue here or is this a good sword, like my origianl post I'm not looking for a dollar fiqure just information no more no less so lets here it please. Thanks

 

Fritz

[John A Stuart]

Hi Fritz, Trying to identify a sword from on-line pics is difficult at the best of times. Some photographers using refined techniques can illuminate all the necessary details to make an accurate opinion. We can see a suguba hamon, but, nothing else, like activities. the same with the hada. The only safe conclusion that can be made about this sword was stated by Louis, except, I dare to suggest shinshinto. John

[loiner1965]

do not give up fritz as they are some very helpful and experienced guys on here who will share their wealth of knowledge to newbies like me and you foc,

as stated before forums like this need new blood to cherish and keep going so do not give up but persue and you will find out more,

as for louis please do not leave as you are too valuable and your exit will not benifit the newbies at all .......

[Veli]

Although the blade in question does not fulfill the tight criteria for an art sword, it is genuine and thus may lead its owner into the path of learning. I have recently seen people repeatedly paying up to 300€ for ugly Chinese fakes. That's where the harsh language would have its place, but unfortunately those sellers and buyers are not within the reach of this community. Low end, gimei blades may serve a good purpose when a new enthusiast is learning the basics of terminology and handling. It is fair to make it clear that they are not the kind of swords one should seriously start to collect. However, every real Nihonto is worth a quick analysis, and during an analysis we all learn something.

 

I would be delighted to see a close-up picture of the kissaki and hamon.

[Bazza]

On this mei under discussion - MURAMASA - no one has said what was obvious to me in an instant. Or maybe no one is so ill-mannered!! The mei looks as if it has been cut with the proverbial 4 inch nail!! I once saw a big Shinshinto katana with the mei MASATSUNE cut in pretty much the same way - crudely. A visiting Japanese collector looked at and opined that a sword smith didn't cut it, perhaps a mirror maker. Now, I just wonder (on the basis of my sample N = 2) if an enterprising person simply put niji mei (2 character signatures) on mumei swords in the Meiji period to increase saleability. The big MASATSUNE was a reasonable looking sword with a hamon and nice sugata, but with that mei one just wouldn't take a chance on it...

 

Regards,

Barry Thomas.

[Jean]

Fritz,

 

It will be very difficult to go further but I totally agree with Louis, it is a nice little wakizashi, not a museum piece but a very decent one compare to what I sometimes see on NMB. Whatever the comments you will find on NMB seldom you will find someone able to craft a piece of art like a sword or tosogu but Ford

[Fritz]

Thanks guys! I will pass this info on to the owner. I appreiciate the info and so does he, Thanks!

 

Fritz

[Ted Tenold]

Okay guys, be nice. Let's face it, the same subjective lines of delination between "Art" and "Not-so-Art" are often as blurry as those between blunt identification and guidance. Cultivating the eye to see and appreciate increasingly better work is very important. But it takes time, effort, guidance, and a huge investment of time and resources. Who here can say they started at the top? Even if one were able, would they be able to really understand that level? Doubtful. Learning how to appreciate is just as important as what to appreciate, and this is where the guidance comes in. The distinguishing disadvantage in today's world is that this simply cannot be fully conveyed on the internet. Personal guidance and tangible study is the singular effective method of education on this stuff.

 

We advise folks to get a "good entry level sword" all the time here and not buy junk. What's a good entry level sword? Is it dictated by price? Absolutely not! People (especially newbies) can blindly overpay. Is it dictated buy quality? No, because quality sets the price and can place that beyond the reach of entry level, and what newbie knows the difference in quality anyway. Is it dictated by type? Length? Smith? Koshirae? No, no, no, and.........no. Furthermore comparing pieces between catagorical (i.e. junk and masterpiece) levels is a bit unfair. They need to be identified *within* their own levels first. What are most swords compared to the likes of Ichimonji, Mitsutada, Kunihiro, or even Go Yoshihiro? What is that 5 year old child's drawing on the refridgerator door compared to Van Gogh's "Irises". Ask the parent of the five year old. Arguably, some will say that Bizen Kazuuchimono swords are not "Art swords", but who here would say it would be acceptable to stake their tomato plants with them because they are not "Art" swords? They did afterall, make it this far in history. Also remember that in their day, these things were weapons first and foremost. Junk killed opponents just as fast as Juyo. We have the luxury of looking at them in a completely different light.

 

So, Fritz, it's difficult to add much more your sword other than the aforementioned. But here's my opinion;

 

The signature is dubious looking and likely gimei. That's okay, collect work, not signatures. The nakago rust is on the red side which is a concern because it's active and may be a product of either efforts to age the nakago, poor storage conditions or both. Because the polish seems unaffected, the former would be the natural conclusion.

 

The work in the sword is impossible to fully identify from the images. This is what you should focus *your* study on. Anything we propose will be of limited value without having the piece in hand. Although it does not appear to have any glaring disparaging flaws, it cannot also be confirmed that it does not, nor can the quality be fully assessed. What is visable to us appears well forged, and the yakiba well formed and consistent. The polish looks clear enough to identify the features of the sword and the shape of good form. However from the images I don't get a feeling of higher level quality of materials or workmanship. Maybe just average work. Average is okay for it's own level.

 

The mounts are also average off the shelf looking. Nothing spectacular, but functional and suitable.

 

This sword is obviously a "working man's" sword. The best that he could afford for what he needed. Certainly not a masterpiece of a top craftsman, but still an example of Japanese sword craft and worthy of care and appreciation as such.

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

Brian was mentioning in another post the other day that many people just join the board post a few times and then are never heard from again - from what I gather it is because of your exact "alpha dog" attitude you mention all the time in an effort to make it seem like you really aren't trying to be the king of the hill.

 

I suspect this thread will end up being locked like most of the others you contribute to though, well done - again. It's funny to see the revolving circle of people that show up on this board, your type has come and gone over the years, you come in and make a bunch of newbies feel like idiots then leave to some other board where I'm sure you'll do the same thing again and again.

 

It's too bad though, too bad for this board and too bad for potential collectors.

 

 

And customers. Sometimes Rheinard breaks eggs in somebodyelse's pocket.

 

Hope your resentment is not due to this but simply to good willing for newcomers..

[Jean]

Just a laugh about Van Gogh, we have a very good ad on TV for a French IP "Free"

 

Van gogh after dinner in an inn offer one of his painting to the owner for payment and the innkeeper to say " Still Iris, could you not paint dogs or cats, that's the last time I accept such a painting"

 

BTW, Ted, I must say you are wrong when talking about 5 year old children drawing, Vincent began his careeer by this kind of drawings - and me too but like with Nihonto I never overcame this stage

[Amon]

The signature is pretty poorly chiseled and is most likely gimei but that is ok too. Looks to be shinto from the pics, could be shinshinto, could be koto.

 

Gimei? No problem. Fittings of the poorest kind? "Modest but average". Age or quality of a blade? Who cares? It's probably Japanese and therefore a little piece of art. Let's reduce NMB to the question: Is it of Japanese origin or not? We can take things easy again and play the game like most of the Meiji boys did. No more painstaking research, no more disappointing answers. It looks Japanese from a distance? Great!

 

Any more questions?

 

reinhard

 

Please enlight me with "most of the Meiji boys did", everything else is cristal clear...

[reinhard]

Go ahead and make some smart ass responses, I won't be on here to see them, but I will come back to see how things are in a couple of years - and I bet you'll be gone:)

 

Here we go:

There are quite a few people, who make an easy living by telling their customers just what they want to hear. Among them are many amateur dealers with a couple of books at hand and self-declared "professional" polishers, who did stages in Japan. Most often the only thing they have in common with their teachers are their prices. Some of them see their business in danger, threatened by a forum like NMB and internet in general. Why not join in and trying to manipulate it?

 

However, telling people, that "gimei is ok too" and poor trash is acceptable, as long as it it looks Japanese, is contradictory to everything this board is dedicated to. Maybe I'll be gone within a couple of years, but I really do wish, the crooks will be gone before.

 

reinhard

[reinhard]

Please enlight me with "most of the Meiji boys did", everything else is cristal clear...

 

What I called "Meiji boys" were the (mostly) western foreigners, who invaded Japan during later 19th century and didn't have a clue. Some of them traded "masterpieces" for "glass beads". At least, that's what they told their customers in the west. This kind of business is still going on, BTW.

 

reinhard