Mei translation assistance please

[Alban L]

Hi everyone,

 

I just bought my very first Kai Gunto, while waiting to receive it and present it here I would appreciate any help to translate Mei on the tang !

This appears to be a non traditional blade with Seki stamp, I think date is Showa (partially visible) 18, should be very end of 1943 or year 1944. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

I have no idea of the translation of the two kanji Mei on the other side...

 

Thanks for your help !

 

(Sorry for poor quality of photos, that's all I have for now)

 

Alban

 

 

 

[Alban L]

Looks like second Kanji could be 重

Perhaps Shige or Nobu. No idea about first one

[Jussi Ekholm]

I would think it is Yoshishige - 良重

[Alban L]

22 minutes ago, Jussi Ekholm said:

I would think it is Yoshishige - 良重

 

Thank you very much, seems you're perfectly right, I found thanks to your indication another Kai Gunto with very similar Mei discussed here :

 

 

 

Thanks again

 

Alban

[oneshot onekill]

I thought the Seki stamp was more of a Military Acceptance stamp and the sword may or may not be traditionally made. Is that the accepted take on a Seki Stamp? I'm just curious. 

[Alban L]

1 hour ago, oneshot onekill said:

I thought the Seki stamp was more of a Military Acceptance stamp and the sword may or may not be traditionally made. Is that the accepted take on a Seki Stamp? I'm just curious. 

 

Reading about these stamps I understood it was always indicating a non-traditional blade. I am quite sure it is indeed the case for stainless steel Kai Gunto blades with the anchor stamp, but I am still wondering it is always verified for other stamps like this Seki one or if it can just be like you suggest a military acceptance stamp, without consideration of traditionnally making or not. I have not seen any precise source on this subject. 

 

Considering this precise swordsmith, Yoshishige (良重), I made a quick search and it appears he made some high class swords like the one presented on this website, also made during the war but without stamp : https://www.samuraishokai.jp/sword/14123.html?fbclid=IwAR2oHUnkesHVpIcQ3xCbWiO62ONAvl5k4O8BTu98u57zCbUat5NpL4XiTWY

 

Or this one said being made before the war :

 

The sword I got has a clear hamon very similar to the blade from the same swordsmith presented here :

 

 

Not sure is is even partially hand forged but I still like it, I have been waiting for my first Kai Gunto for a while now !
I will present it here when I receive it.

 

Don't really know what to think about these stamps, I don't know enough about it. If people tend to say it is usually indicating non-traditionnal making, there may be some reasons. But it appears some swordsmiths also made higher grade swords.

 

Regards,

 

Alban

[Bruce Pennington]

Interesting!  I own another 1943 Yoshishige kaigunto!  Large Seki stamp.

 

We have no definitive proof of the purpose of the large Seki stamp.  The 2 major sources are: Ohmura, who states that the stamp was used to mark approved showato, and that traditionally made blades were not stamped.  He also states the stamp was absconded by the Army, so they stopped using it; and the Seki City website history section states that due to poor quality showato hurting the market during the early years of the war, the Seki Cutlery Manufacturers Association began inspecting and stamping (type of stamp not stated) blades for quality.

 

So there is strong evidence that the Large Seki stamp was used by the Assoc. on good quality showato.  You'll find small seki stamps on Nagoya Arsenal blades, mostly in 1943, as it was used by their arsenal inspectors.

 

I am not aware of any traditionally made blades put forth with either large or small seki stamp.  But am open to any efforts to do so.

[Alban L]

Good evening Bruce, I saw your Kaigunto when looking on this forum about Yoshishige. Very similar sword !

 

The need for stamps indicating a good quality Showato would completely make sense, especially when swordsmiths are also known for other high quality productions.

 

We had exactly the same need in Europe during XIXth century when evolving from artisanal swordsmiths production to large scale industrial production, having as a consequence some concerns about swords quality. For example during the 1880s the procurement scandal in UK, after a series of incidents with broken army and navy swords at combat. British had as a consequence the "prooved" stamps on their swords, and other quality labels appeared at the same time abroad like the "Eisenhauer" (cutting metal) mention on Solingen swords or equivalent "Yzerhouver" in the Netherlands.

Purpose was to certify quality of industrial swords. We could have exactly the same logic in 1930s Japan, in need for a mass production but guaranteeing combat-ready swords. That's just hypotetic but that would make sense to consider these stamps indicate good quality showato. Still not Gendaito but intersting for those looking for military swords like we do.

[Alban L]

Good evening,

 

Would anyone be able to confirm kanji reading on this one ? Also on a Kai Gunto.

Could be 上野住兼宗之作, but quite unsure and I am not able to identify a corresponding swordsmith...

 

Enjoy you week-end 

 

[SteveM]

Kōzuke-jū Kanemune kore saku

 

aka Kiribuchi Kanemune. You can find him about halfway down the thread below

 

[Alban L]

Thank you Steve !

[Alban L]

I also read on this page this Kiribuchi Kanemune was listed in the "Tosho Banzuke" ranking as "Chuge Saku", the fifth rank listed. Would you what is the meaning of these labels and quality associated with each of these ranks ?

 

http://www.japaneseswordindex.com/tosho.htm

[PNSSHOGUN]

Hi Alban, you can also cross reference with this list, which is based on Sumo ranking: http://japaneseswordindex.com/rank.htm

 

 

[Alban L]

Thank you John. I understand this different ranking systems during the war are listing swordsmiths who produced high quality sword but could still procude also non traditional blades. It seems to be only an indication of the skills of swordsmiths but doesn't guaranteeing the quality of a specific blade 

[Alban L]

Thanks again for your assistance in translating Mei on these two Kai Guntos, Yoshishige on the left and Kanemune on the right. Probably average WW2 blades but I am very pleased having found these, as they where first possessed by naval officers too.

That's an honor being the one taking care of now !

 

I'll post more detailed photos as soon as received !