Mumei tanto in odd mounts

[Pitt1999]

Hello,

 

New to this forum, I was thinking of posting this to the Ethnographic Arms and Armor forum but figured more information could be found here. I just won this tanto in an eBay auction today and wanted to get some opinions on it. The blade doesn't seem to be of much significance, but it's mountings are what I found to be unusual to my amateur eyes. The lack of tsuba is not very strange, but the lack of a habaki I did find rather odd. The belt clip on the saya is another thing that I have not seen on many examples online. The metal used for these fittings looks like it might be a type of silver alloy from these photos (these are the seller's photos, I will post some when I get the object in hand). The thing I found odd about the blade is that the tang seems to have been modified or reshaped to work for these mounts. This is an odd piece for me, it probably won't be for people more knowledgable in this field collecting. Your comments and opinions are appreciated.

 

Thanks

[Pitt1999]

More photos...

[Misconstrued]

I'm confused. There is no habaki? This either is a fake sword or these are just very low fittings.

[ChrisW]

Going to go out on a limb here and say that we have the remains of a very much abused nihonto. There is what remains of some yasurime (filemarks) left on the very disfigured nakago and the shape of what is left of the blade itself matches nihonto, with just the faintest hint of a hamon. Unfortunately, the state of preservation is so poor that I very much doubt there is anything that could be done with it that makes any financial sense. It is an interesting conversation piece in my opinion. The shape suggests that it is the remnants of a naginata naoshi or a wakizashi; it is unlikely that this was ever a tanto.

If it is not nihonto, then it is likely to be a very butchered dha.

[Rich S]

There was a habaki at one time.  Can see the outline of one at base of blade.

[Misconstrued]

The mountings do appear to look somewhat like what would be mounted as a dha.

[Pitt1999]

I thought about this being a dha but these mounts do not look like any type of dha I have seen from the regions in which dha were in common use.

[Misconstrued]

Some farmers did make fittings for swords after WW2, many of them were guntos, but there were family blades occasionally due to soldiers using them as guntos. This one could've had mountings made by a farmer, but I don't really know much about it myself.

[AntiquarianCat]

I had thought about dah too since there are many from the time when Thai were under Japan’s sphere of influence that are very nihonto like https://to-ken.uk/onewebmedia/Real Life Kantei swords 15 Cunha 11 12 2017.pdf but maybe this doesn’t look that much like the example.
 

Is there any chance the sword could be tied to Kaifu? The fat mihaba and shape makes me think of that. It’s a shame the nakago has been adulterated?

 

Would this be a Komonojo sword? It reminds me of one of his sales.

 

[ChrisW]

5 minutes ago, AntiquarianCat said:

I had thought about dah too since there are many from the time when Thai were under Japan’s sphere of influence that are very nihonto like https://to-ken.uk/onewebmedia/Real Life Kantei swords 15 Cunha 11 12 2017.pdf but maybe this doesn’t look that much like the example.
 

Is there any chance the sword could be tied to Kaifu? The fat mihaba and shape makes me think of that. It’s a shame the nakago has been adulterated?

 

Would this be a Komonojo sword? It reminds me of one of his sales.

 

Yes, that background is 100% his. So it is likely to be a real nihonto, but he typically sells "problem children" or things that won't sell in Japan and so they offload to him to offload to us Westerners who try to bargain hunt.

[MHC]

DHA swords do not have any form of a Mekugi-ana, their handle mounting is with resin not a peg. This mekugi-ana looks original to the blade.

 

Mark

[PNSSHOGUN]

There is a passing resemblance to a police Jitte or something in that ballpark.

[Pitt1999]

Yes this was purchased from komonojo! I didn't know he was so well known here. I've always preferred collecting the misfits and the problem children so his sales are perfect for me. I like to think that I know just enough to not get burned on some of his items but my knowledge of nihonto is a fraction of the knowledge you guys have.

[AntiquarianCat]

I remember looking at him, I don’t trust the naked blades he sells but I agree many of the swords in not rough condition he sells are nihonto with some problem - this being one of them. So I guess I’m not surprised something with an adulterated nakago got sold by him.

 

I’m glad this sword went to someone who will care for it. It’s still a Japanese sword and a piece of history so it deserves that much.

[Pitt1999]

3 hours ago, Misconstrued said:

Some farmers did make fittings for swords after WW2, many of them were guntos, but there were family blades occasionally due to soldiers using them as guntos. This one could've had mountings made by a farmer, but I don't really know much about it myself.

Those swords sound quite interesting. I would quite like to see some of those!